Aussie Monday game started 16th April 2007

[Majorball]

Yes well done Mike.....Even if I had tanks equal to you I doubt I would have had enough there to take on a blob of 70 panzer divisions. I was surprised at how fast they move in the winter. Plans are under way to counter the new Panzer blob assault. All credit to you Mike you caught me with my pants down but I am seriously concerned with our games in regards to the air blob and now the panzer blob. Nothing I have can counter a stack that big in winter.

 

[mike8472]

Yes well done Mike.....Even if I had tanks equal to you I doubt I would have had enough there to take on a blob of 70 panzer divisions. I was surprised at how fast they move in the winter. Plans are under way to counter the new Panzer blob assault. All credit to you Mike you caught me with my pants down but I am seriously concerned with our games in regards to the air blob and now the panzer blob. Nothing I have can counter a stack that big in winter.

I disagree major. Mighty has succesfuly stoped my attacks with even larger amounts of panzers in winter with enough forces.

You would be suprised the amount of damage and org losses I take when confronted by modern tanks. They inflict far higher org loses and strength loses as mighty can attest too. If all your tanks were lvl III or IV I would have a difficult time and I would no bother attacking in winter unless I have a large number advanatage which I did have against mighty.

The only reason your suffering at present is due to crappy tanks, ive never seen russia with light tanks befor. If you had the normal 40+ medium or improved tanks it would another story.

As for the German blob, well in the real battle for kursk the Germans had over 2000 tanks and the Russians close to 4000 to use plus reserves further back. Now I had these numbers combined but you didnt have much there really in terms of armour. So in numbers yes it has happened in real life in that exact area.

So how do you want Germany to fight? Large infantry battles to ware out my manpower in human wave attacks? Smaller armour battles so you can easily counter? This is classic blitz attacks mass armour concentrating on one spot to break through blitzing around the flanks to encircle enemies.

It is not cheap for me either, winter takes alot higher attrition loses, org loses and strength loses. I cant advance very far without having to wait a month to re-org. It took like over two months to put right commanders on, re-org the armies and reposition them for the concentrated attack.

Im suprised you built a transport plane if what I saw flying north of Kharov was one, looked like a strange bomber. Your building V1's. You built alot of forts which do not really slow me down much at all, I dont even notice them in battle. Plus you have a very large fighter/interceptor force for Russia and a whole bunch of light tanks.

So befor you complaining about my use of tanks you should examine your own strategy and builds which in this game from what ive seen is not up to your normal standard. Your russia is normaly tougher then this.

If I wanted to major I could send another 20 amour ive built over the last 6 months to Russia as well, all lvl IVs but there now in France and other areas as reserves and preparing for other secret operations.

So instead of moaning about large numbers of tanks, find away to counter it. Its not up to me to play a game to your advanatages so you can win easily and drain my manpower. I will play to my advanatages, its hardly new for a German player to build lots of tanks. I made the investment in IC to build them to use them. Perhaps your allies can all pump tanks out for you, or maybe stop building planes, infantry, missiles, transports and so on and focus all your IC on tanks. Other wise it might be a painful war for you, unless your allies can invade France with 200 divisions and force my panzers to go elsewhere.

 

[Majorball]

I disagree major. Mighty has succesfuly stoped my attacks with even larger amounts of panzers in winter with enough forces.

You would be suprised the amount of damage and org losses I take when confronted by modern tanks. They inflict far higher org loses and strength loses as mighty can attest too. If all your tanks were lvl III or IV I would have a difficult time and I would no bother attacking in winter unless I have a large number advanatage which I did have against mighty.

The only reason your suffering at present is due to crappy tanks, ive never seen russia with light tanks befor. If you had the normal 40+ medium or improved tanks it would another story.

As for the German blob, well in the real battle for kursk the Germans had over 2000 tanks and the Russians close to 4000 to use plus reserves further back. Now I had these numbers combined but you didnt have much there really in terms of armour. So in numbers yes it has happened in real life in that exact area.

So how do you want Germany to fight? Large infantry battles to ware out my manpower in human wave attacks? Smaller armour battles so you can easily counter? This is classic blitz attacks mass armour concentrating on one spot to break through blitzing around the flanks to encircle enemies.

It is not cheap for me either, winter takes alot higher attrition loses, org loses and strength loses. I cant advance very far without having to wait a month to re-org. It took like over two months to put right commanders on, re-org the armies and reposition them for the concentrated attack.

Im suprised you built a transport plane if what I saw flying north of Kharov was one, looked like a strange bomber. Your building V1's. You built alot of forts which do not really slow me down much at all, I dont even notice them in battle. Plus you have a very large fighter/interceptor force for Russia and a whole bunch of light tanks.

So befor you complaining about my use of tanks you should examine your own strategy and builds which in this game from what ive seen is not up to your normal standard. Your russia is normaly tougher then this.

If I wanted to major I could send another 20 amour ive built over the last 6 months to Russia as well, all lvl IVs but there now in France and other areas as reserves and preparing for other secret operations.

So instead of moaning about large numbers of tanks, find away to counter it. Its not up to me to play a game to your advanatages so you can win easily and drain my manpower. I will play to my advanatages, its hardly new for a German player to build lots of tanks. I made the investment in IC to build them to use them. Perhaps your allies can all pump tanks out for you, or maybe stop building planes, infantry, missiles, transports and so on and focus all your IC on tanks. Other wise it might be a painful war for you, unless your allies can invade France with 200 divisions and force my panzers to go elsewhere.

You disagree with what? Stop being so arrogant...I didnt ask for your advice and I do not want your advice. My concerns with the game are my problem not yours.

In the battle of Kursk you are correct in the actual amount of tank numbers at that battle however 70 armoured divisions contain a lot more than 2000 tanks...why not try a number like 20000?

An to put a few facts correct..I am spending 1.6IC on V1 rocket...hardly a great loss.

I own one transport plane paid for and bought off the USA.

I would hardly call that a significant waste.

Now on the light tank issue we have already discussed and as you know I couldnt upgrade them without significant cost. I had 30 built before I realised it was costing me twice as much.

Now get off your high horse, stop offering advice not asked for and stop criticising other players and what they build or dont build. No one knows what everyone else is building so its not our fault we always build opposite to what you build. In the ocean you got heaps of Battleships you got control of the seas...as Russia I build lots of fighters and the German has lots of fighters..Germans build 70+ tanks the Russians dont have that capability to build that many Medium tanks by 1941.

In a previous game you built lots of bombers and I had hardly any fighters. So every time I guess I guess wrong and every time you guess you guess right. So everything you have built this game has turned out a huge advanatge to you. So call it good fortune or good luck you have a significant advantage in the land, air and sea. We as the Allies didnt guess right at all in any of our builds. This is not our fault. We must build a little of everything with the restricted IC we have pre war.. That situation is being addressed as the game goes on so no more bullshit from you on what people should build.

Now get on with the game stop criticising players for their builds and stop being so defensive to the compliment I paid to you in a previous post. I really was congratulating you on good play and you have to turn it into a lecture for me.

Its also the same with your offensives..every time you have attacked in this game you have by passed all my major troops concentrations behind the lines. There will come a time when you dont get it right. Your luck will run out soon.

You cant always get your builds and attacks right.

This is my last post on the forums in regards to action reports...so you can argue with yourself.

 

[mike8472]

You disagree with what? Stop being so arrogant...I didnt ask for your advice and I do not want your advice. My concerns with the game are my problem not yours.

In the battle of Kursk you are correct in the actual amount of tank numbers at that battle however 70 armoured divisions contain a lot more than 2000 tanks...why not try a number like 20000?

An to put a few facts correct..I am spending 1.6IC on V1 rocket...hardly a great loss.

I own one transport plane paid for and bought off the USA.

I would hardly call that a significant waste.

Now on the light tank issue we have already discussed and as you know I couldnt upgrade them without significant cost. I had 30 built before I realised it was costing me twice as much.

Now get off your high horse, stop offering advice not asked for and stop criticising other players and what they build or dont build. No one knows what everyone else is building so its not our fault we always build opposite to what you build. In the ocean you got heaps of Battleships you got control of the seas...as Russia I build lots of fighters and the German has lots of fighters..Germans build 70+ tanks the Russians dont have that capability to build that many Medium tanks by 1941.

In a previous game you built lots of bombers and I had hardly any fighters. So every time I guess I guess wrong and every time you guess you guess right. So everything you have built this game has turned out a huge advanatge to you. So call it good fortune or good luck you have a significant advantage in the land, air and sea. We as the Allies didnt guess right at all in any of our builds. This is not our fault. We must build a little of everything with the restricted IC we have pre war.. That situation is being addressed as the game goes on so no more bullshit from you on what people should build.

Now get on with the game stop criticising players for their builds and stop being so defensive to the compliment I paid to you in a previous post. I really was congratulating you on good play and you have to turn it into a lecture for me.

Its also the same with your offensives..every time you have attacked in this game you have by passed all my major troops concentrations behind the lines. There will come a time when you dont get it right. Your luck will run out soon.

You cant always get your builds and attacks right.

This is my last post on the forums in regards to action reports...so you can argue with yourself.

Im not arguing with you major and not trying to give you advice you took it the wrong way.

Maybe I should have been more specific. Its in regards to the comments you made on air blobs and tank blobs as you call them. I agreed with you on air as its from one airbase. However tanks and the many divisions in provinces cover huge tracks of ground. Provinces are often many hundreds of miles wide so can easily hold the said troops. Weather the infrastrucutre can is another question but this is penalised in ESE with re-orging and supplies.

Thats what I was refering to major and my comments on your builds. Your quick to say "panzer blob" which can be tacken as you saying its some how unfair to do it. Thats all. I was mearly pointing out that instead of saying its some how unfair or thats how I took it, look at your own builds or strategy first. Thats all. I was worried you were hitting the change rule button again, as you do.

As for hiting you in the right spot well yes it was part luck and good planning. My planning involved moving all the troops, right leaders and concentrating and working out where to blitz, not hard just need good timing. As for hiting you were you didnt mass, well I can see all your troops positions, numbers and leaders. I also flew planes around that area to see if you had massed forces further back which is what I thought you did. As i noticed you reduced the forces in kursk from some thing like 22 down to 6. To me it looked like you saw my plan or movements and were moving troops back to counter it. Thats why I flew my planes to scout it out and there was nothing there. So it was luck that you weakened this spot and I could quickly move through it.

So it just didnt happen or I got lucky, it was a combination of seeing how you deployed your forces and trying to hit you where your weakest were I could encircle your forces and either force you to pull out or you stay and die. It wasl ucky you redployed forces which made it alittle easier for me to do it.

As for movement of speed the only thing I can suggest is that It was province size. I was moving from smaller provinces and hence closer to the next province then you. If you look at the map the provinces you were in or moving out of to try and beat me to the next province were larger and hence further away meaning longer times to get there. I was moving through smaller provinces closer together. Some of your forces were retreating as well which always takes longer then moving forces. I cant think of any other reason off the top of my head why I beat you to the provinces.

We talked about the tanks and how expensive it is, good for all players to know that. As for my Battleships, well I just caught the allies of guard, no one ever built so many before as axis so you cant predict it. I doubt next game I will be so fortunate. So I get the suprise advanatage.

But no I got to guess what the US will do and worry about that. Will they invade Europe and mass forces for that, afrcia, middle east and so on and prepare for all of that. What ships the US build, fleet compositions and so on. So slowly the wheel is turning and I will have to react to the allies.

Perhaps I am to defensive, but you are good at slipping in comments which can be tacken either way meat head.

 

[unmerged(35801)]

meat head.....he he he

 

[mike8472]

P.S

Im allowed to brag and give it to ya while im winning, I cant exaclty give you heaps in 3 or 4 years when you or the allies are in berlin now can I.

So suck it up, your ment to behave like Russians not Italians. :rofl:

 

[Majorball]

Perhaps I am to defensive, but you are good at slipping in comments which can be tacken either way meat head.

I will take that as an apology :rofl:

Now less bragging or I will come over there knock some sense into you. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(59421)]

As for the German blob, well in the real battle for kursk the Germans had over 2000 tanks and the Russians close to 4000 to use plus reserves further back. Now I had these numbers combined but you didnt have much there really in terms of armour. So in numbers yes it has happened in real life in that exact area.

.

That battle of Kursk shaped up like this.

Germany had,

1'000'000 troops of various classes, Grenediers, Volks Grenediers ect ect.
3'000 tanks of various classes. (First major tank battle were significant formations of Tiger and Panther tanks were deployed).
10'000 pieces of artillery of various classes, Neberfewers, stationery and mobile feild artillery.

Russia had,

1'600'000 troops of various classes, Conscripts, Red Gaurds ect ect.
3'600 tanks. (Largest deployment of T-34/85's and KV and ISU class heavy tanks in any Russian tank battle of the war).
13'000 - 16'000 pieces of artillery. Everything from 150mm heavy feild howitzers to 2'000 - 3'000 Katyusha Rocket artillery trucks.

With those statistics in mind, the battle of Kursk never happened until 1 or 2 years after where you guys are upto in our game thus far. Majors Russia is somewhat historic as far as tanks go. If Russia had of had large qauntities of T-34's and KV class heavy tanks deployed when Germany invaded then chances are Russia probabally would not have been beat up so bad. Let's all keep in mind that Russia never really started holding it's own against the Germans until late 42 at Stalingrad and they never got strong until 43 when they started really pushing the Germans back accross the whole front. As long as Major doesn't keep deploying BTM light tanks I think they are then he should start shaping up a bit and holding better come 42. SE.

 

[Majorball]

That battle of Kursk shaped up like this.

Germany had,

1'000'000 troops of various classes, Grenediers, Volks Grenediers ect ect.
3'000 tanks of various classes. (First major tank battle were significant formations of Tiger and Panther tanks were deployed).
10'000 pieces of artillery of various classes, Neberfewers, stationery and mobile feild artillery.

Russia had,

1'600'000 troops of various classes, Conscripts, Red Gaurds ect ect.
3'600 tanks. (Largest deployment of T-34/85's and KV and ISU class heavy tanks in any Russian tank battle of the war).
13'000 - 16'000 pieces of artillery. Everything from 150mm heavy feild howitzers to 2'000 - 3'000 Katyusha Rocket artillery trucks.

With those statistics in mind, the battle of Kursk never happened until 1 or 2 years after where you guys are upto in our game thus far. Majors Russia is somewhat historic as far as tanks go. If Russia had of had large qauntities of T-34's and KV class heavy tanks deployed when Germany invaded then chances are Russia probabally would not have been beat up so bad. Let's all keep in mind that Russia never really started holding it's own against the Germans until late 42 at Stalingrad and they never got strong until 43 when they started really pushing the Germans back accross the whole front. As long as Major doesn't keep deploying BTM light tanks I think they are then he should start shaping up a bit and holding better come 42. SE.

Agreed but I doubt enough pressure will come from the western front or the med for some time. Mike made best use of his armour with Blitzrieg type tactics but on a much larger scale. I suppose what surprised me most was the speed of the advance. I personally think it should be much slower in winter as the retreat times for the Russians were significantly greater in the snow even with winter leaders compared with the same retreats in summer..However the German Tanks appeared to advance as fast as they would in clear weather. Certainly give me something to think about if I play the Germans..A winter advance may become a tactical option in the future as it prevents counter attacks by inferior Russian forces.

Anyways enough from me I am not complaining merely stating my views on the game...please all dont confuse this with wanting to make new rules or anything like that.

 

[mike8472]

The main reason why I can do winter offensives against both you and mighty is due to my advantage in tanks. Dosnt matter how much infantry Germany or Russia have in winter, there uesless and you suffer such high losses. Armour how ever dosnt suffer as much in winter due to it hardness and with winter commanders and used in large numbers will punch through. Only thing that can stop it would be another good sized armour force mixed in with your infantry.

What I found with mighty is the good armour he has enabled the battles to on alot longer, so i fought through more nights, which really hurt my org. Its that staying ability of modern tanks which slows down your advance. Those light tanks majors got, well its like a hot knife through butter even in winter.

Even so winter offensives are only good in limited goals. You lose org quickly and still take more losses. If I wanted to do another offesnive now I would need a fewm onths to redeploy and re-org. So it is limited. I chose Kharkov to take so it would not hinder my summer offensive, I didnt want to waste months trying to take it. So now I have an open front on which to advance in the summer.

Winter offensives are expensive but can be useful with a limited goal and maxium force.

 

[Majorball]

The main reason why I can do winter offensives against both you and mighty is due to my advantage in tanks. Dosnt matter how much infantry Germany or Russia have in winter, there uesless and you suffer such high losses. Armour how ever dosnt suffer as much in winter due to it hardness and with winter commanders and used in large numbers will punch through. Only thing that can stop it would be another good sized armour force mixed in with your infantry.

What I found with mighty is the good armour he has enabled the battles to on alot longer, so i fought through more nights, which really hurt my org. Its that staying ability of modern tanks which slows down your advance. Those light tanks majors got, well its like a hot knife through butter even in winter.

Even so winter offensives are only good in limited goals. You lose org quickly and still take more losses. If I wanted to do another offesnive now I would need a fewm onths to redeploy and re-org. So it is limited. I chose Kharkov to take so it would not hinder my summer offensive, I didnt want to waste months trying to take it. So now I have an open front on which to advance in the summer.

Winter offensives are expensive but can be useful with a limited goal and maxium force.

Well I suppose it has to be limited because its no use getting to the good weather and having divisions that need to re org before they attack.

Had a great battle last night with Gunny...he nearly had Stalingrad surounded and I nearly had him surounded. He had to divert tanks from around Moscow to prevent it. It was a very intense session with both sides at risk of being cut off. Only dissapointment was 7 tanks divisions which had to retreat into a swamp and it was going to take 30 days. I do not understand why it took so long but lost 5 tanks in the retreat and the infra was good in both provinces. Had Gunny attack them right away I would have lost them all...it was only after 2 weeks he started bombing them. Still I wasnt impressed losing 5 tanks in that manner.

 

[unmerged(59421)]

Yes bad weather has it's affects which in a sense adds a good realism effect to this game. Just to emphasize on what Major said about Tuesday nights game. It was intense with many and furious battles raging all over Russia, massive tit for tat struggles between me and RAS in India as well as some huge naval battles in the Indian Ocean. In respect to the latter, when I engaged Rastius's BB fleet off the coast of India it was during bad weather the both times we engaged. Had it been good clear weather then the massive 300 mm guns of my BB's would have come to bear on Rastius's 2 BB's and smashed them. Even though I did manage to take down many of his escorts and several heavy cruisers I think it was, due to the bad weather I lost one of my older BB's which had been banged up by allied naval bombers earlier. But if the weather was good then his BB's although also banged up by the end of our two engagements, might not have been able to slip away to port. SE.

 

[mike8472]

We all good for tonight. 6.30-7pm start. Cyas then.

 

[unmerged(62373)]

i wont be in for the monday game. Australia is set up so the alleis can use mil control.

 

[unmerged(59421)]

Japan.

An eventful session for Japan. In possibally the single largest naval manuvre of the game to this point. The IJN and elements of the IJSF (Imperial Japanese Special Forces) assaulted the British island garrison of Diego Garcia. A small canadian transport fleet was intercepted trying to head for Diego with reinforcements but was forced to retreat back to India before they could land. The islands defenders were quickly swept aside as some 80+ Japanese warships pounded the British defenses to pieces and allowed our forces to storm ashore. The defenders surrendered after only a few ours of fighting and now the Jap-Cino alliance controls the sea lanes of the Indian Ocean. After the great success of the operation to capture Diego Garcia, elements of IJN and IJSF were redeployed to a secret location were they underwent training drills for a similar manuvre in order to capture Wake Island from the Americans. Although against superior numbers, like Diego Garcia, Wake Island fell after only a few hours of fighting. With the Japanese wall of steel now complete in the Pacific, Japan looks to the rest of the region. Should we push for total conquest of India, invade Australasia, or continue to press the Americans in the eastern Pacific. Only time will tell as we move to the half way mark of 1942. SE.

 

[mike8472]

Interesting session.

A month after the session began the largest air assult in the history of mankind was unleshed upon the Uk. A combined 160 Air units launched massive air raids over the UK to destroy and drive allied shipping from the UK. This offensive had been planned a few months back when Japan spread word to the Euro Axis or large numbers of allied planes in India. To take preasure of Japan an Air offensive was planned over the UK.

Less then 30 allied fighters meet the axis air onslaught and were quickly brushed aside. Many allied ships were sunk including 2 CVs, last reports saw the UK fleet heading for the northern Russia ports. This was spotted through the military access agreement between the nations.

Hitler also got reports of a sevre disagreement between FDR and Churchill. Its seems FDR is not prepared to risk his military units to save the UK and has told them they must suffer from there own failures. Is it possible that there allies could break apart.

At this point the planned invasion of the UK with 60 infantry divisions and 24 armour was put on hold. Although with massive air superiorty and complete naval control and invasion would be easily possible and could probably knock the UK out of the war. It was decided at this point to make the UK suffer a more agonising slow and painful death and destruction and to teach them to never again oppose German mastery.

In africa or should I call it the Greater Axis Empire, portugal and south africa were both annexed by Germanies allies, Italy and spain. A huge achievement when the distances involved are considered. 2 more valuable UK allies eliminated. The British commonwealth and alliance has now shrunk to a small scale.

In the east it was mostly quiet. The start of the summer offensives got underway in the centre with some strong soviet counter attacks against German panzers. However Germany made quick gains and with large infantry armies moving up to support the panzers a big offensive once the next lot of mud passes in early june will commence. It seems the only way the USSR can fight is to give up large amounts of land and then counter attack, this will only work for so long. Soon the foolish of this strategy will become apparent.

In western France large axis armies assembled for the invasion of the UK are now staying put to provide large defences for France and Spain. Large fortification works were completed in key beach provinces along with large radar instalations. Defences in the Azores and Iceland were increased along with coastal fortifications.

It seems at this point the axis have an unlimited number of troops and manpower to use. With Africa gone, all those armies tied up there are free to go elsewhere. Where next, Persia or India. We cannot let the Japs get it all. The Axis are far to strong for the soviets to eve contemplate victory against the forces arrayed against it. Only a massive allied commitment to the UK and Western Europe would help the USSR at this point.

On to victory.

 

[Majorball]

War reports Eastern Front

Soviet commanders have been given orders to play hide and seek with their armies. The German summer offensive started with German Panzers blitzing through the frontline and running into Soviet reserves. German panzers attempting to Blitz through were massacred around Moscow with 60 panzer divisions in full retreat at less than 20% organisation 2 days after the assault started. Stalin is indeed delighted to have halted the summer offensive as quickly as it started.

The Russians have indeed learnt from the previous years offensives.

Despite Bravado from Adolf his Eastern front panzer armies are in tatters. It will take a month to refit that amount of tank divisions.

Onwards towards victory comrades.

On another topic between Nolan and Gunny. I understand that Gunny has been getting a raping from Nationalist Spain, Italy and Germany for some time. Every island in the Atlantic is Axis controlled. In my opinion there is not much the USA player can do until he builds sufficient forces to do any meaningful. Having played the USA myself I know how difficult it is to reinforce the UK when you have to run the gauntlet of Axis airpower with ships. It is going to be a slow process for the Western Allies to claw their way back into Africa and Europe, one island at a time. I think you 2 guys should kiss and make up because unless you work together it is near impossible.

 

[unmerged(16810)]

Things look grim for the Allies.

With the UK and occupied Europe/Africa blockaded and US forces denied access to British territory (riddle me that one?) the Alliied war against the Euro axis is on a knifes edge. With relations between FDR and Churchhill describes as 'hostile at best' things may very well get worse before they get better.

In the Pacific Jap forces continue to menace Australia with 2 large Jap armies advancing from the West through Java and from the North in PNG.
Wake Island fell putting up little resistance against crack IJN marines.

In some good news reports from the Kremlin indicate a very happy Joe Stalin.


________________

 

[unmerged(59421)]

Mike check ya PM's. SE.

 

[Majorball]

Mike check ya PM's. SE.

Hey no cheating