Aussie Group Doomsday MP Game 20th April.

[unmerged(50486)]

Then i guess a new game it is..

 

[unmerged(55921)]

Years in the making, AT LAST!!

Mike wins as Germany.

Well done Mike, bad luck Major Ball.

 

[mike8472]

Another omni post.

Well it was certainly a good game, lots learned and very enjoyable. I think this game showed how important it is for the western allies to keep the preasure up on Germany otherwise russia suffers to greatly and they lose.

So at present we still have 2 games going the 6 player were its 1940 and the sunday game. Its probably best to stick with our 2 nights for the 6 player, Tuesday and Thursdays. Sunday is for our sunday game of course. That leaves Wednesday, Friday and Saturday for the new DD game. Mondays are still out for a week or two as mighty and gunny are finishing there other game, once finished this opens up monday too.

So tonight lets see if we can all turn up at 7pm. Post here if your free ealier. Me, munster and major are here all day.

 

[unmerged(16810)]

The Flexi Friday game is still in the balance.

If you quit now major it will give Mike his first ever win over the USSR in HOI2 and we cant allow that can we?

Major trying to blame the Allies for your defeats in the USSR this game is just not on. You did suffer under low GDE for longer than you should have which didn,t help but the Allies have helped the USSR more in this game than any other I can remember. What about all those Allied Divisions fighting in the USSR? If not for them I think the Soviets would have been beaten already.
The Axis have been able to inflict immense damage on the Red Army while maintaing large quality reserves in the West and Mid East. The blame for the Soviet collapse is with the Soviets alone and nobody else.
The Allies are on the offensive on all fronts. There is nothing wrong with our war effort or builds. The war in the Pacific is being won and if anyone thinks CV,s are useless builds they dont know what they are talking about. The USN now controls almost every Ocean and sea on the planet and thats without the help of the destroyed RN. Its the Red Army in trouble Major not the Allies in this game so maybe its your own builds and teks you should be looking at not ours
The Allies will have air supremacy from mid 44 onwards and can then invade western Europe in mid 44 (historic) but not before. The only failure which may lose us the game is the Red Armies effort in Russia so dont try and blame the Allies for this failure

And remember... earlier in the flexi game 2 gearing events on the fall of China were edited out from the US the excuse given so all players would have a "fair game" (what rubbish) As long as players go along with such Advantagous edits for the Axis in our games then these players should be prepared for the consequences of weakening the Allied cause.


This game is the best chance we have of finishing a game and now some players want to quit????

This group will never finish a game if this keeps up

______________________

 

[mike8472]

Hahaha you give it to him nolan. I think your claims of gaining air control are a bit far fetched when my airforce is all nearly improved turbojets, so technology wise you may equal me in mid 44 or so, but all my commanders are skill 7, plus my planes get a +50% from experience now mainly from the russian front. So even if you equal me in tech you are no match for the vetran luftwaffe. Every battle you fight me you best planes will be at lest -50% difference to mine.

Nolan does make a good point, that if not for the 120+ divisions in Russia the war would have been won by germany in 42. I dont know the full reasons why russia seems weaker or at least the European axis are so strong as therey are many.

But unless major wants to play on, the game is finished. If it was DD we could play on but in hoi2 its the end really once russia is defeated.

Game time tonigt will be 7.30.

Do you have Doomsday yet nolan? Maybe you should play soviets nolan, might put up more of a fight hey. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(16810)]

Sadly no DD yet

Whens it in the shops?




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[unmerged(55921)]

I dont know the full reasons why russia seems weaker or at least the European axis are so strong as therey are many.

Give the AI .8 GDE, and give yourself .78, you'll still lose most battles against equal tech armies.

In other words, Russia has been screwed in MP by being given .7 GDE, it's not much skill on your part.

 

[Majorball]

Major trying to blame the Allies for your defeats in the USSR this game is just not on. You did suffer under low GDE for longer than you should have which didn,t help but the Allies have helped the USSR more in this game than any other I can remember. What about all those Allied Divisions fighting in the USSR? If not for them I think the Soviets would have been beaten already

You are correct without the UK divisions in Russia Lennigrad was gone in the first year as it was only UK armour with stronger GDE which allowed Russia to hold it. We have been artifically holding up the Russians since Mike declared war early on the Soviets. I will take my share of the blame.

The Axis have been able to inflict immense damage on the Red Army while maintaing large quality reserves in the West and Mid East. The blame for the Soviet collapse is with the Soviets alone and nobody else.

The Russian army sits in Logistics stacks of around 50-60 in the Urals out of air range. Hardly a viable strategy but forced upon me. Problem is you are the only one here who has not had the full impact of airpower against your armies. Then you would know what it is like to lose 10 divisions a week.
its all Red army fault I will take the blame if it makes you happy.

The Allies are on the offensive on all fronts. There is nothing wrong with our war effort or builds. The war in the Pacific is being won and if anyone thinks CV,s are useless builds they dont know what they are talking about. The USN now controls almost every Ocean and sea on the planet and thats without the help of the destroyed RN. Its the Red Army in trouble Major not the Allies in this game so maybe its your own builds and teks you should be looking at not ours .

You build have been to slow and too late to be of any use....3 or 4 years after the threat was known you start to do something about it. I have no problem taking full blame for the demise of the Soviets but it has only been dominate airpower which has been the difference and lack of Allied aircraft to pose any viable threat anywhere else.

The Allies will have air supremacy from mid 44 onwards and can then invade western Europe in mid 44 (historic) but not before. The only failure which may lose us the game is the Red Armies effort in Russia so dont try and blame the Allies for this failure .

You guys couldnt invade a boy scout camp.

The Red army was screwed from Germanies early DOW and GDE at .5 for 12 months. You only had to see the attack on Lennigrad when my entire org vaporated within a few hours with 30 + divisions defending in a level 5 fort and city province. 3 UK tanks held out for a week. I should have told UK to stay out then we wouldnt have wasted so much time for nothing.

And remember... earlier in the flexi game 2 gearing events on the fall of China were edited out from the US the excuse given so all players would have a "fair game" (what rubbish) As long as players go along with such Advantagous edits for the Axis in our games then these players should be prepared for the consequences of weakening the Allied cause.

Axis need all the help they can get.. Gearing events had nothing to do with UK building no fighters or destroyers till their entire fleet was lost.

This game is the best chance we have of finishing a game and now some players want to quit????

This group will never finish a game if this keeps up

I am more than happy to finish the game....I am not happy to finish the game if you going to screw around in Africa and middle east doing jacksh*t.
Lets play on....I dont mine being a German puppet..after all its my poor strategy and builds thats the problem. Dont worry about the 400 superteched enemy divisions in Russia and 50+ air groups. When they get someone who knows how to play taking over the russians things will be better for the Allies...after all what do I know about playing Hoi2.

Tell me why you just dont take out Japan..instead of screwing around taking a few islands and some useless desert. Put some pressure on them so I dont have a million Chinese and Japs invading me as well.

 

[mike8472]

Well that enough talk on whos fault it is blah blah blah. Lets not argue over whos fault it is. We all did our best, and it was or best game ever.

Nolan, buy the game online it will save you money. Here is the link you can download the game from paradox.

http://shop.paradoxondemand.com/

You have to register at paradox, pay for it. Then you d/l a program called Ztrom which lets you download the game. Will cost you about $30. IF you wait for the game to come out in store its going to cost you $60-70. Just follow the intructions they provide.

If you need help with how to do this just post here and ill phone you and talk you through it.

Will take a few hours to download the game so start soon, if were playing Doomsday tonight.

 

[mike8472]

Here are some rules that are under discussion at present, to try and bring the game back into some balance.

1. Italy and Spain cannot join the Axis until Paris falls. This is so the UK dosnt have to worry about, Gibralter, malta, Alexandria until italy and spain are in the war.

2. UK cannot take military control of CW until war starts. This is to keep it balanced so there are not 100 divisions sitting the UK prior to war. The Axis dont take military control of there minors until war.

3. Until italy joins the war no CW forces are allowed in the med. This is to keep the game fair for italy so it dosnt face 80+ CW divisions from day 1 of the war. It should remain mostly a Italian vs UK affair.

4. No attacking through nuetrals. All parties must be at war with each other.
Keep in mind if you want to help a nuetral you can give them units now or sell them.

5. No major war till danzig, besides events.

Some points. There has been som concern raised about spying and giving units away.

Spying is not so easy, you can defend against it strongly if you pay attention to it. Lets just see how it goes.

6. Between us Human players once you give units to another Human nation you cannot get them back. This is to stop exploits such as USA just gifting its whole fleets and armies to the UK pre-war. Same with Germany could give away heaps to italy or spain. So between human players if you trade units, you dont get them back, you lose them for ever.

Every one has to use some common sense here, if you go giving away whole armies pre-war it just runins that game and we may as well not bother to play. If the US gifts France 100 divisions for example, it would mean game over as Germany would never get through. So think carefully about your actions and consult other players on your side to see if they agree, that it would be a fair move.

You can send what ever you like to AI nations. Just be mindful you will lose them forever as the AI wont give them back. So if you gift China units to fight Japan you wont see them again, same with spain.

7. The US cannot build land/sea forts in the pacfic until war. It is pretty unrealistic for the US to build up lvl 10 forts all over the pacific and runins the game in the pacific.

What does everyone think.

 

[Majorball]

1. Italy and Spain cannot join the Axis until Paris falls. This is so the UK dosnt have to worry about, Gibralter, malta, Alexandria until italy and spain are in the war.

Agree

2. UK cannot take military control of CW until war starts. This is to keep it balanced so there are not 100 divisions sitting the UK prior to war. The Axis dont take military control of there minors until war.

3. Until italy joins the war no CW forces are allowed in the med. This is to keep the game fair for italy so it dosnt face 80+ CW divisions from day 1 of the war. It should remain mostly a Italian vs UK affair.

Regardless if Italy enters the war on Paris falling all CW restrictions are lifted. What is the Med? I prefer to see that no military control until Danzig of CW minors. Then Canadians may enter Europe. All other CW forces(NZ, Australia, SA etc must remain at home(Mainland provinces) until Paris falls. The excepetion being Iraq forces may move anytime after Danzig.

4. No attacking through nuetrals. All parties must be at war with each other.
Keep in mind if you want to help a nuetral you can give them units now or sell them.

Agree

5. No major war till danzig, besides events.

Agree

6. Between us Human players once you give units to another Human nation you cannot get them back. This is to stop exploits such as USA just gifting its whole fleets and armies to the UK pre-war. Same with Germany could give away heaps to italy or spain. So between human players if you trade units, you dont get them back, you lose them for ever.

I think this needs to be controlled more(we dont have much common sense). If the USA was to gift UK 20 fighters prewar there would be no Battle of Britain and game would be severly unbalance. The USA would never miss those planes. How about no giving units to Human players until you are Allied or in Russias case at war with Germany(eg USA may give units to Russia when USA is at war with Germany as long as Russia is at war with Germany).
Giving of units should be restricted to planes ,ships, armour, motorised and mechanised. Once given cannot be taken back. All other forces infantry, mountain troops can only be given as Exp forces.

7. The US cannot build land/sea forts in the pacfic until war. It is pretty unrealistic for the US to build up lvl 10 forts all over the pacific and runins the game in the pacific.

What does everyone think.

Agree

 

[mike8472]

I agree to all of those adjustments and additions.

 

[unmerged(17563)]

7. The US cannot build land/sea forts in the pacfic until war. It is pretty unrealistic for the US to build up lvl 10 forts all over the pacific and runins the game in the pacific.

I disagree most vehemently with this one. Gunships is a veteran Japan player and I have only once seen a game as USA to war. I need defenses in the Pacific without them Gunny will pick me off and sink my fleet. I'm still a newbie, never played a major for long b4.

Typically I use for my Pacific Islands size 3 sea forts, 9 Garrsions with art brigades and size 10 airbases and size 4 naval bases. Thats not too much surely for a newbie vs a veteran?

I am no doubt going to fuck stuff up and will need a security buffer in the pacific rim.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

Which sultry little sack of onions am i to be in this game?>

i also agree witht he ammendments listed. Though ill admit, i am extremely disgruntled with japan annexing china and USA not getting anygearings out of it.. Bit of an exploit IMHO

 

[unmerged(55921)]

I am no doubt going to fuck stuff up

No doubt.

 

[unmerged(5892)]

Perhaps to cover the Japan-China-USA issue, I'd suggest the following.

Until war, no US additional fortifications in the Pacific. This can be changed if the following occurs - Japan annexes China, or puppets China. 1 year after this occurs, the US player is no longer constrained in any of their fort builds.

This should just mean if we get an early annexation/puppeting of china, say in 1939, the US player will be able to commence building forts in 1940. They won't have level 10 forts, but will have some defences (if they wish) at say level 4/5 max.

Alternatively, if the Japanese player is bogged down in China, and doesn't annex them at all, or perhaps not until 1940 (which will rarely happen) they will still have a good chance to hurt the US player.

 

[Majorball]

Japan shouldnt be permitted to liberate any minors until the USA gets at least one gearing

 

[unmerged(50486)]

I agree with both joel and major, Joels point prettymuch well encompasses the pacific debate.

Also, As major said 1 gearing. I find it hard to believe that if china was annexed in RL that neither RUSSIA or USA wouldn't have stepped up the pace a little, seeing as they both sent copious amounts of supplies to China in RL. (not to mention the radical oil embargo that could be lumped easilt on Japan).

anyways if the soviets arent taken ill claim them for this game.

G

 

[mike8472]

I can agree with perhaps one gearing event for USA. Also remeber it is nearly impossible for Japan to avoid the war in China its an event.

Take into account our recent games have favoured the axis due to UK player mistakes not and over strong japan, the war is normaly in favor of the axis big time by the time Japan is in the war. Yet Japan has still struggled against the US.

With the changes we make to the UK and Axis balance in europe should make it a bit easier for the UK. If the UK keeps it fleet and forces intact until Japan is in the war, Japan will have a tough time indeed.

I dont think Japan should be punished for event which have been out of its control. It is perfectly find for Japan to puppet china as there are event which puppet the smaller chinas as Japan conquers land. So it makes logical sense that Japan would alos puppet Nationalist china if it got the chance.

China terrain has also been altered alot with lots of moutains in the south, which will make conquest slower and alot tougher. Also when nationalist china is puppeted there IC has been halved from what it was in hoi2. So there have been alot of balancing issues with Japan and China done for DD.

I think we should leave Japan alone, and let the US build forts on its islands from 1941 onwards. With balance changes in europe it should make the whole situation different. This also defends greatly on the UK player, if they make the same mistakes well, no ones fault but there own.

Lets at least play one game before we change the situation in the pacific here have been no real balance issues there with the allies able to deal with Japan. Its Europe that has been the problem for the allies.

 

[mike8472]

Major wont be ready till some time between 7-7.30pm. But if the rest of us are here from 7pm we cant talk about the game.

Nolan.....have you downloaded Doomsday or you going to wait till the shops have it?