Well push on with Sunday game, the sooner it is finished the more time we free up for other games.
I got mil control,
I got mil control,
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Mighty G said:
That seems pretty silly mighty. You got only 3 people to play in this game now, whats the point. You could have, me, major, nolan and boof all playing as well in our big game with a long session.
Show me the logic mate.
Rastius cant make it. Play this game during the week when rastius here like tuesday or so as hes not here tonight or monday. Dosnt that make alot more sense rather then runin a good chance for a uber long session with our big games so all of us can play.
Mighty G said:
Well while you root around with 3 players we may start a Sunday game...seems a waste of time with day off tomorrow us not playing our other game!!! :wacko:
I just spoke to gunny. He wants to play our Friday game if rasitus cant make it tonight. So I guess G your down to 2 players now for the sunday game.
Dont you think it a good idea to play our largers games tonight consider rasitus cant make it and you got, me, major, nolan, boof, gunny, you and geo who could all play in the game for a big session.
It does make sense dosnt it. Ya meathead.
Also gunny said he cant play till 7.30 so 7.30 start time.
Dont you think it a good idea to play our largers games tonight consider rasitus cant make it and you got, me, major, nolan, boof, gunny, you and geo who could all play in the game for a big session.
It does make sense dosnt it. Ya meathead.
Also gunny said he cant play till 7.30 so 7.30 start time.
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Thanks Mike if you can edit those units back in for me 
It was 4 cromwell tank divs Mk4 with armord cars (not sure lev 1 or 2 arm cars)
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It was 4 cromwell tank divs Mk4 with armord cars (not sure lev 1 or 2 arm cars)
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Nolan said:Thanks Mike if you can edit those units back in for me
It was 4 cromwell tank divs Mk4 with armord cars (not sure lev 1 or 2 arm cars)
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I edited in the 4 tanks for you, all lvl IVs with AC. There in massusa's on ethiopias coast.
So 7.30 start time tonight as gunny cant make it till then.
Fuck sake all this night hijackings, so we just abandon all our other games.
Great plan.
Great plan.
Mighty G said:
No mighty were not. But can you understand that it makes perfect sense when your down 1 player out of 4 and there are 4 more players who are ready to play the other game.
It just like what happens when one of our other gamesdosnt get up due to player missing we play one that all people can play.
If rastius was here fine play it, but hes not. So isnt it better to wait and play it or are you that keen to play this game in 1943 and rasitus misses out on important parts of the war.
Japan and the USA will enter tonight so will be alot of fun for all.
Cyas at 7.30.
Gunny perhaps I am a member of this group too long and can remember this rule in particular, page 3 of Aussie group rule discussions:
20) Naval Bugs:
a) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion its decided they are bugged and its going to game breaking the attacking player must break off all attacks naval and air. The affected player is to tell the other player when his forces have reached the next province then attacks may commence. A small group of naval units passing in the middle of hostile territory that gets attack and more than likely be destroyed is not sufficent. It must be a game breaking situation.
b) Preventing such bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.
21) Air units:
a) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.
b) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.
Rule 21 makes a lot of sense to me when we are fighting over islands...There is going to come a time when it affects the Japanese player also. If this house rule no longer applies let me know but I reckon it is a common sense rule for all players. Note that it does not include moving to a base for no reason other than to relocate. It is for bases which area about to be captured.
20) Naval Bugs:
a) Pause the game. Ask the host to save. Discuss with your opponent the situation. If after discussion its decided they are bugged and its going to game breaking the attacking player must break off all attacks naval and air. The affected player is to tell the other player when his forces have reached the next province then attacks may commence. A small group of naval units passing in the middle of hostile territory that gets attack and more than likely be destroyed is not sufficent. It must be a game breaking situation.
b) Preventing such bugs can be avoided by the following:
Avoid long distance rebasing through hostile waters. Wait a minimum 4 hours before retreating from a naval battle. When selecting a retreat province avoid selecting a port not in that province. When setting ORG and strength for missions set it to 80-90% rather then the default 50% your units will retreat by themselves.
21) Air units:
a) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.
b) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.
Rule 21 makes a lot of sense to me when we are fighting over islands...There is going to come a time when it affects the Japanese player also. If this house rule no longer applies let me know but I reckon it is a common sense rule for all players. Note that it does not include moving to a base for no reason other than to relocate. It is for bases which area about to be captured.
its seems to me the "naval bug" only comes into play when transports are involved (correct me if im wrong)...many players complain that their tr fleet cannot retreat from battle.....i think i need to be enlightened here.....which transports from any country can outrun any warship from any country????....the truth is it would and could never happen!!!.....so although i believe there is a retreat bug in the game...... if transports are involved they would and should be easily sunk if caught by any enemy warship that is attacking them......so any save and rehost to fix the "bug" should only be done if transports are not involved in battle....imho anyways
Geofactor said:
True geo but the damage done in 4 hours against unescorted transports is devastating as it is. Big transport fleets were never totally sunk as all the ships would head different directions. Thats the reason large convoys were sent to Russia. I am talking about genuine bugs here.
Naval bugs now are not as common and transports would naturally steer clear of combat ships so to say they all should stay there and get sunk is not correct. I like the rules as is..I had 3 unescorted transports get sunk last night inside 4 hours..I deserved to lose them. But if I had 20 I dont think I should lose the lot. One transport ship couldnt carry a whole division so transport although they have individual names actually represent numerous ships. I am happy to say that there are less bugs now with retreats from naval combat.
The air unit rule was from a problem in earlier versions of the game. If a player tries to defend and island he should be permitted to leave with what ever planes he has left if it is about to fall. I dont agree that they should be able to fly out if the island is not under threat. It was put in place to stop game breaking losses to aircraft. When the USA player eventually lands on a few islands I am sure the Japanese player doesnt want to lose 20 + air units in one hit.
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Geofactor said:
The retreat bug only happens if you retreat before the 4 hours expires. Then your fleet is caught in a never ending battle until your fleet is destroyed. Thats why you cant retreat before 4 hours.
In my opinion we all know about it and if you do it, then its tough luck. You can claim you did it by accident after only 1 hour of battle then we reload and you get away from the battle scot free. Where in fact those extra 3 hours in battle you would normaly have to do with a large CV or BB fleet and hence why your retreating you would suffer large losses.
If its a bug yes reload, but this isnt a bug the game is designed not to allow you to retreat before 4 hours and if you do it you ware the cost.
There are some problems with naval invasions with transports. Failed naval invasions with the troops often take two weeks to reload to transports (retreat) and your transports are stcuk there till the retreat is finished. This was also built into the game to stop people doing failed invasions and being gone again with in hours. Just like dunkirk it takes weeks to load large numbers of troops and this is how it simulates it. Some times how ever armies dont retreat properly to transports and youm ight bave to rebase the transport fleet back to the mainland and your armies normal appear after awhile.
People claim it is buggy but often people just lack the patience or dont understand the combat engine properly or there fleet gets destroyed or forced away from the island there were invading before the troops can retreat in that two week delay. This is how it is ment to work and people claim "bug" when in fact it works as designed.
So main points to rember are these with invasions.
Do not launch invasions from islands, launch from a mainland province.
A failed invasion will take two weeks for troops to reload or there abouts.
Your fleet cant move for a delay peroid after a failed invasion.
Some times your troops may no retreat properly so you need to rebase your TPs back to the mainland and it will normaly fix it self.
Its important to remeber how costly a failed invasion in real life would be. Imagine if D-day failed and the huge losses the allies would have tacken. Would been a disaster. So invasions must be planned correctly. Even more so if your fighting an enemy that has large fleets and airpower, it will be very costly should you fail.
major ball said:
I disagree major. That battle last night happened so quick I didnt even see it. They must have been all sunk in 1 hour as I clicked on it straight away and still missed it.
Imagine if 20 unescourted transports ran straigt into a fleet of Battleships that are fater then the TPs. TPs only have a speed of 18, battleships or CVs have a speed alot higher like 25-30. TPs would never escape aginast suck a large fleet.
In my opinion if you send a fleet of TPs unescourted and get caught you deserve to lose them. You wont get ny favors from me I will sink the lot if I can. If yous own fault for not escourting them.
mike8472 said:
I didnt post the rule about bugged ships for any reason..it just happened to be above the air unit rule. No one had any problems last night with retreating ships. So Although you like to argue with me for anything you dont need to on this occasion. I have no problems with ship retreats yet in this version of Hoi.
I already said I deserved to lose those transports last night it was never a topic of discussion....they were lost inside 2 hours...no sour grapes here.
Geo was saying you shouldnt be able to retreat trannies but make them stay there until all sunk.. The game engine allows you take take 4 hours of hits then move to the next zone..if they get attacked again they take their lumps again. Geo was saying they should all stay there until sunk.
You have to remember it is the game engine is not a true reflection of actual combat. No way it can factor in a convoy scattering when attack by surface ships. A surface ship can only follow and sink so many ships in a convoy.
No entire transport fleet was sunk in WW2. 20 Transports represents how many ships, 200? How can a Battleship fleet sink 200 ships in 4 hours? Ships would head in all different directions.
In 4 hours of combat with your BB fleet you could sink 7-8 trannies inside 4 hours...In my opinion thats a fair outcome. To say they should all be sunk without the chance of escape is not right even for transports. So if a player had a fleet of 20 transports and lost 7 inside 4 hours thats fair and if he got to next zone and lost another 7 tough luck. But to lose 20 in the first zone because they got stuck and were there for 16 hours is not right.
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Germany advances in Russia.
The War in the east goes well.
German forces continued to push hard against the russians giving them no respits or mercy. German panzers spear headed assults north of kharkov and towards kulga and tula. Advance axis units pushed as far as the outskirts of stalingrad.
German forces regrouped and launched a massive push towards moscow which was so nearly encircled. At present moscow is surrounded on nearly all sides with only Rezhev open. The weather and terrain are the only things stoping the Germans from surrounding moscow and once the good weather arrives massed German forces will secure moscow and the surrounds.
So far German has noted with delight that the Soviets simply have no answer for the massive German armour formattions. In normal weather soviet armies are simply brushed aside with ease. Even in winter the panzers have suffer hardly and combat strength loses only org loses due to long marches and constant fighting. Its amazing what winter comanders on all your panzers will do. To push aside so many soviet divisions in winter is a pleasing sign, espicaly with hardly any loses.
Massive aribattles raged above moscow with the luftwaffe pushing aside the red airforce with some losses. The Air force were evenly numbered but far better German airdocs and organisation proved the difference, with Germany retaining air dominance during the entire battle.
The 1941 summer/winter offensives have gone far better then planned. To be at the gates of stalingrad and to have moscow nearly surrounded were far more then I expected. I would have been content to stay at the river line for 1941 but I decided to push across even after a first failed attempt. Once across the Panzers have proved unstopable in open ground.
In the atlantic and western fronts. Well whats to say the allies have done nothing. I sunk 3 US transports off canada. That sums up the allied war effort to help Russia. Not even 1 allied plane over France or Germany. Not even a push against Italy to make me send forces there. It seems the allies have abandoned Russia to its fate.
Hitler is most pleased with the current situation. Germany look forward to 1942 and victory over Russia.
May the Third Reich last for 1000 years.
The War in the east goes well.
German forces continued to push hard against the russians giving them no respits or mercy. German panzers spear headed assults north of kharkov and towards kulga and tula. Advance axis units pushed as far as the outskirts of stalingrad.
German forces regrouped and launched a massive push towards moscow which was so nearly encircled. At present moscow is surrounded on nearly all sides with only Rezhev open. The weather and terrain are the only things stoping the Germans from surrounding moscow and once the good weather arrives massed German forces will secure moscow and the surrounds.
So far German has noted with delight that the Soviets simply have no answer for the massive German armour formattions. In normal weather soviet armies are simply brushed aside with ease. Even in winter the panzers have suffer hardly and combat strength loses only org loses due to long marches and constant fighting. Its amazing what winter comanders on all your panzers will do
. To push aside so many soviet divisions in winter is a pleasing sign, espicaly with hardly any loses. Massive aribattles raged above moscow with the luftwaffe pushing aside the red airforce with some losses. The Air force were evenly numbered but far better German airdocs and organisation proved the difference, with Germany retaining air dominance during the entire battle.
The 1941 summer/winter offensives have gone far better then planned. To be at the gates of stalingrad and to have moscow nearly surrounded were far more then I expected. I would have been content to stay at the river line for 1941 but I decided to push across even after a first failed attempt. Once across the Panzers have proved unstopable in open ground.
In the atlantic and western fronts. Well whats to say the allies have done nothing. I sunk 3 US transports off canada. That sums up the allied war effort to help Russia. Not even 1 allied plane over France or Germany. Not even a push against Italy to make me send forces there. It seems the allies have abandoned Russia to its fate.
Hitler is most pleased with the current situation. Germany look forward to 1942 and victory over Russia.
May the Third Reich last for 1000 years.
major ball said:
It never happened in WWII as the commanders werent stupid enough to send that many transports without a large fleet.
Its not only 30 ships in a Battleships fleet. Light Crusiers and destroyers represent not 1 but multiple ships for each unit. Its only the captital ships that are 1 for 1.
I would think a large battlehship fleet with 50-60 escourts would have a good chance at sinking most of those 200 transports if caught with no protection.
If anyone send 20 TPs in our games with no escourts you deserve to lose the lot just through stupidity. It is liekly in 4 hours against a large fleet you would
10-12 TPs I would think. But you would lose the rest in the next seazon as the CV or BB fleet would be faster so you will never get away.
Now how about discussion on this rule not ships, seeing as no one can remember it except me, I think its fair to prevent game breaking air unit losses to all players:
21) Air units:
a) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.
b) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.
21) Air units:
a) Air units that have been given a rebase command and keep retreating back to a base about to be captured must be permitted to leave such a province. To keep engaging them to prevent such a rebasing mission is not in the spirit of the game. The damage done to such units is more then enough penalty.
b) This does not apply to normal missions only to those on a base about to be captured by enemy ground units.
mike8472 said:
I agree no need to argue about it. If you send unescorted transports you deserve to lose them all but not if they are stuck in a sea zone for more than 4 hours unable to retreat. Geo was saying that transport should stay in a sea zone until sunk even if this is more than 4 hours. I dont agree...they should be given a chance to move to the next zone after 4 hours.