August Storm Mod Review

[gabadur]

I have provided references that prove - beyond reasonable doubt - that the Sahara railway was not just planned, it was feasible AND built.
Without supplying any research yourself, you stated that it was impossible;

"This is wartime. Sure you can waste your money on building up infrastructure.. but it was NEVER an option. Those projects you describe were major peacetime initiatives, costing vast sums of money. Investment in the future, something that would benefit the country for years to come. Not something to enable an army to pass once or twice.
Plus, the maintenance would have been horrendous.
The shifting sands of the Sahara have swallowed whole towns before, never mind a flimsy railroad track."

It depends upon the level of "immersion" you desire.
Think of a swimming pool.
Children & the aged & infirm swim at the shallow end.
Others choose a deeper level of "immersion."
Experienced swimmers and athletes do this as it challenges & strengthens them.
I choose the deeper or more immersive end of the HOI spectrum.

Here is another example - Spartanlemur just made this statement;
"NATO counters are the deal-breaker for me. Pass."
Clearly this type of troop/corps indicator is too challenging for him.

You also insisted;
"The No mans land mod is essential."

Clearly you guys wish a more shallow level of immersion.
That is your choice - and you have expressed your opinion.

I have also made my choice, yet you cannot accept it;
"Its a completely ridiculous notion in the context of this game."

When I last messaged Cpack, he was gathering logistics references with a view to coding railway related transportation.
Cpack is also a modder, so I will be interested to see what comes from his ideas too.

your superiority complex is deafening. Lol i dont like counters because personally, i think they're boring compared to people and planes shooting each other (also the map is 3d the 2d counters dont match with it), also nato didn't exist in WW2... Its in the name, so really it isn't a "deeper level of immersion" if its outright unhistorical and wrong.

 

[tom_jones]

Could you post or PM me a link to that mod?

This is just a few tweaks thrown together than a proper mod, so I didn't publish it anywhere just make an empty mod, create a text file in common/defines/ sub-folder and name it something like "01_reducedgrouping_def.lua" and paste the following into it:

NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_GROUP_CAM_DISTANCE = 270.0 --90.0 -- camera distance at which the icons begin to group up
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_STATE_GROUP_CAM_DISTANCE = 540.0 --180.0 -- Camera distance at which the icons begin to group up on state level
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_STRATEGIC_GROUP_CAM_DISTANCE = 1050 --350 -- second camera distance at which the icons begin to group up
NDefines.NGraphics.MAPICON_GROUP_STRATEGIC_SIZE = 500 --1000 -- for strategic areas of this size or bigger we dont do strategic area grouping
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_COARSE_COUNTRY_GROUPING_DISTANCE = 1400 --350 -- Distance at which icon grouping becomes very coarse and merges different types of units
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_COARSE_COUNTRY_GROUPING_DISTANCE_STRATEGIC = 1400 --350 -- Distance at which icon grouping becomes very coarse and merges different types of units for strategic mapmodes

(the original values are after the -- comment indicator. The ones I used may be too much, so if you want the grouping to actually kick in sooner, tweak the numbers closer to their defaults)

 

[AlanC9]

your superiority complex is deafening. Lol i dont like counters because personally, i think they're boring compared to people and planes shooting each other (also the map is 3d the 2d counters dont match with it), also nato didn't exist in WW2... Its in the name, so really it isn't a "deeper level of immersion" if its outright unhistorical and wrong.

"Unhistorical" doesn't work. The symbols pre-date NATO, actually; NATO adopted the existing US system.

Someone ought to do a mod with country-specific symbols. IIRC the Wehrmacht system was quite good.

 

[shepherd352]

This thread is supposed to be a review of the August Storm mod but several people have chosen to focus on their preferences for infrastructure development or the use of particular symbols on counters. If you want to make he point that you don't like a choice made by the modding team, that's fine (it is aligned to the purpose of review) but debating issues should be raised in a specific thread.

I don't agree with every decision that a modding team makes. I might try to change their minds by reasonable discussion in their mod thread but, if it is clear that their position is firm, I would respect it. If it really bothers me, I would try to mod a change or I would just play a different mod.

 

[Cardus]

You're being serious, right ?
Tell me why the desert war was fought in a narrow stretch of land close to the Sea in North Africa.
Tell me why Rommel didn't just send his panzerarmee into the desert to outflank the commonwealth forces and invade egypt from the south.
Please, tell me. I'm all ears.

This is wartime. Sure you can waste your money on building up infrastructure.. but it was NEVER an option. Those projects you describe were major peacetime initiatives, costing vast sums of money. Investment in the future, something that would benefit the country for years to come. Not something to enable an army to pass once or twice.
Plus, the maintenance would have been horrendous. The shifting sands of the Sahara have swallowed whole towns before, never mind a flimsy railroad track.

Also, what level of infrastructure does railroad sit at ? At level 1 I would imagine a few dirt tracks. So where would railroad be ?

I agree almost completely with you but, please, bear in mind that the British when prepared their offensive built railroads and pipelines. This, for the reasons you mentioned, was not possible to do in the desert.

This thread is supposed to be a review of the August Storm mod but several people have chosen to focus on their preferences for infrastructure development or the use of particular symbols on counters. If you want to make he point that you don't like a choice made by the modding team, that's fine (it is aligned to the purpose of review) but debating issues should be raised in a specific thread.....

Sorry you are right

 

[dermeister]

Out of curiosity, is there any explanation on the Wikipedia what colouring scheme they're using for their diagrams? As far as I can tell it's not provided with the diagrams, it's not included in the NATO symbols page, and for that matter, there's not even any explanation provided with the diagrams what the colours actually mean ...

I've never seen any formal definition of that scheme but they've been using it for years. As far as I know, it could be the scheme invented by whoever is the person or team creating all the Wiki OOBs. All I know is that I consider it to be the absolute best, and so August Storm makes full use of it.

 

[AlanC9]

I suppose if we could track down an explanation of what the colors mean, it might say who decided what the colors mean. As long as the explanation wasn't written by someone who just doped out what they mean by looking at wiki pages, that is.

 

[jackda]

We've just released a major new version of AS :

AS Alpha 1.1.0.6 changelogs :

- New events : Fall Anton, Operation Torch...
- New GER Focus : French Collaboration
- Fixed and more readable Grand Offensive focus (can be repeated now, and AI uses them)
- More balance improvements for : land doctrines, combat tactics, Tank units....
- Weserubung event fixed
- More historical AI : ITA won't join GER wars until Paris has fallen (means no more GER in Africa in 39), French state won't join Axis when created....
- More realistic JAP victory outcome in China.
- More AI improvements
- New: Jet aircraft 1945, 50, 60, 80 (Ground Attack, Interceptor, Superiority Fighter, Strike Fighter, Attack Bomber)
- New: 1948 and 1989 bookmarks (Work in Progress)
- Impassible line in East Sahara

 

[Redandwhite]

I guess its been covered but has the map in North Africa been "fixed" to simulate the impassable terrain inland of the Med coast? Along the lines of "No Mans Land"?

 

[dermeister]

I suppose if we could track down an explanation of what the colors mean, it might say who decided what the colors mean. As long as the explanation wasn't written by someone who just doped out what they mean by looking at wiki pages, that is.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that:

• Infantry is green based on grass
• Marines are blue based on the sea
• Paratroopers are light blue based on the sky
• Cavalry is yellow based on sand
• Armour is red/pink based on the German Panzer colours

But hey, that's just my imagination. Maybe there is a super-duper intricate rationale that has absolutely no relation to the immediate obvious guesses.

 

[jackda]

I'm unlikely to play this mod and I'm certainly not going to make a sub-mod to fix it.

There's no way of modding pettiness out of people unfortunately.

But indeed. Thank you August storm team for making this timeline extension mod available to the community.

WAD features don't need no "fix".
I suppose you don't care if creating new sprites for Helicopters need time, for example ? Are we supposed to waste our free time modding a feature we hate, just to satisfy M. Zoob ?
I love those people that can't do things THEY want by themselves because they are too lazy, and calling more capable people "petty" just because they refuse to be their slaves.

 

[jackda]

Would you recommend August Storm for multiplayer? I don't play much of SP.

We decided to make a mod for HOI3 to balance our Multiplayer games. Just like you, I only have an interest in those games playing against human players.
It is the same for AS4, anyway a well balanced game for multiplayer is also well balanced for single player (just need a specific AI system in addition). The opposite is not always true.

 

[jackda]

This is an excellent mod that runs well. It is truly an improvement over vanilla, and I would recommend it to any serious player.

One minor exception -- the author's goal is (IIRC) to run the game until 1999. My best guess is that the timeline should end around 1960, give or take, given the current state of the mod. The lack of ICBM's, and a coherent AI response to them, gives pause .... and the tech tree needs naval and air upgrades. I suspect some/all of these are in the works. However, the add of helicopters and light tanks/ACR's is a very nice feature.

Regards,
Feltan

We have ICBM in AS3, we are still in Alpha for AS4 : many things will be added in the next versions of the mod.

 

[Shady_Steps]

Forced nato counters? What is this some kind of strange experiment to see how long it takes for someone to fix your mod? Oh and looking around you are rather petty about the whole affair.

Well thanks for contributing to the modding scene but this is clearly not for me.

 

[jackda]

Forced nato counters? What is this some kind of strange experiment to see how long it takes for someone to fix your mod? Oh and looking around you are rather petty about the whole affair.

Well thanks for contributing to the modding scene but this is clearly not for me.

WAD features don't need no "fix".
I suppose you don't care if creating new sprites for Helicopters need time, for example ? Are we supposed to waste our free time modding a feature we hate, just to satisfy M. Zoob ?
I love those people that can't do things THEY want by themselves because they are too lazy, and calling more capable people "petty" just because they refuse to be their slaves.

Same for you.

 

[FlyingRoss]

Well this thread has certainly been taken to hostility. It is a review of a mod that is overal very well done. You can like it or not, just like I said in the video itself there are issues people will find with it. But that is a wonderful thing about a mod, you can choose to download it or not.

 

[Fulmen]

also nato didn't exist in WW2... Its in the name, so really it isn't a "deeper level of immersion" if its outright unhistorical and wrong.

Curious logic. 3D models didn't exist in WW2 either, so why play with them? Video games didn't either, so shouldn't you stop playing altogether according to your own logic?

This is just a few tweaks thrown together than a proper mod, so I didn't publish it anywhere just make an empty mod, create a text file in common/defines/ sub-folder and name it something like "01_reducedgrouping_def.lua" and paste the following into it:

NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_GROUP_CAM_DISTANCE = 270.0 --90.0 -- camera distance at which the icons begin to group up
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_STATE_GROUP_CAM_DISTANCE = 540.0 --180.0 -- Camera distance at which the icons begin to group up on state level
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_STRATEGIC_GROUP_CAM_DISTANCE = 1050 --350 -- second camera distance at which the icons begin to group up
NDefines.NGraphics.MAPICON_GROUP_STRATEGIC_SIZE = 500 --1000 -- for strategic areas of this size or bigger we dont do strategic area grouping
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_COARSE_COUNTRY_GROUPING_DISTANCE = 1400 --350 -- Distance at which icon grouping becomes very coarse and merges different types of units
NDefines.NGraphics.MAP_ICONS_COARSE_COUNTRY_GROUPING_DISTANCE_STRATEGIC = 1400 --350 -- Distance at which icon grouping becomes very coarse and merges different types of units for strategic mapmodes

(the original values are after the -- comment indicator. The ones I used may be too much, so if you want the grouping to actually kick in sooner, tweak the numbers closer to their defaults)

Shame that you can't do this without changing the checksum.

I've never seen any formal definition of that scheme but they've been using it for years. As far as I know, it could be the scheme invented by whoever is the person or team creating all the Wiki OOBs. All I know is that I consider it to be the absolute best, and so August Storm makes full use of it.

I poked around a bit and saw several different color schemes being used. Although the one you're basing yours off is the most common on Wikimedia Commons and all the OOBs using it are indeed probably made by a single person or a small group.

As I remarked earlier, using said colours in such fashion has no real-life military basis behind it that I know of. Waffenfarbe and similar colour coding isn't used in NATO symbols.

That being said though, it's your mod and honestly I don't really care that much about this matter. If colouring the symbols eases in-game identification, then it's probably for the best. Even if those colours look a bit unordinary.

We decided to make a mod for HOI3 to balance our Multiplayer games. Just like you, I only have an interest in those games playing against human players.
It is the same for AS4, anyway a well balanced game for multiplayer is also well balanced for single player (just need a specific AI system in addition). The opposite is not always true.

Excellent, sounds like my kind of mod. I'll be checking it out soon.

 

[Shady_Steps]

Same for you.

So your refutation of people who rightfully point out that the removal of counters in favour of NATO symbols is that they are too lazy to fix your mod?

That is actually funny as all hell thanks for the good chuckle.

Another thing directed less at you and more at the other people in this thread, why do you have problems with people commenting about an issue with this mod?

Well this thread has certainly been taken to hostility. It is a review of a mod that is overal very well done. You can like it or not, just like I said in the video itself there are issues people will find with it. But that is a wonderful thing about a mod, you can choose to download it or not.

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about, the attitude that if you see a problem with something you should just be quiet and not mention it because you don't HAVE to download it. This argument would have merit if someone demanded it changed or something added but that is not what is going on here, people are criticising a creative choice and they have a right to do so, it should be encouraged.

 

[jackda]

So your refutation of people who rightfully point out that the removal of counters in favour of NATO symbols is that they are too lazy to fix your mod?

That is actually funny as all hell thanks for the good chuckle.

Another thing directed less at you and more at the other people in this thread, why do you have problems with people commenting about an issue with this mod?



This is a perfect example of what I am talking about, the attitude that if you see a problem with something you should just be quiet and not mention it because you don't HAVE to download it. This argument would have merit if someone demanded it changed or something added but that is not what is going on here, people are criticising a creative choice and they have a right to do so, it should be encouraged.

Or : Big cartoon counters in a wargame were the issue, AS has fixed it by removing them. You still can reintroduce the issue, by doing your own sub-mod for people who love them.

I never had problems with people commenting issues, here and even more in the proper AS thread (it can be easily verifiable). But where "you see" an "issue" to "fix" I see a design choice, free modders' design choice in a free mod they made. Actually, you invented an "issue" just to give you the right to insult people ("petty") everybody can see how red herring your disguised attempt is (who said petty ? )

That's why you never answered and ignored :

WAD features don't need no "fix".
I suppose you don't care if creating new sprites for Helicopters need time, for example ? Are we supposed to waste our free time modding a feature we hate, just to satisfy [M. Shady_Steps] ?
I love those people that can't do things THEY want by themselves because they are too lazy, and calling more capable people "petty" just because they refuse to be their slaves.

 

[roovin]

I love this mod.

The only thing I don't like is the NATO counters. Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

9.5/10