Attrition in Spaaaace!!!!

[MasterOfGrey]

So nowadays there's even a pinned thread on how to deal with doomstacks maybe with various changes to the mechanics of fleet combat etc. etc. etc. I would like to propose a slightly different approach though that has been inspired dually by the STNH mod and by my recent campaign in HOI4.

The Idea:

System Security Fleets + Lawfulness.... Let me explain.

The idea of having security forces in systems has been thrown out before because of how ineffective they would be against a doomstack. I propose though that they could be *part* of the doomstack. These are the changes I would suggest:

1 - Change the techs which increase naval capacity so that they are no longer +X% fleet capacity, but instead do things like "+1 fleet capacity for spaceports".
- - - Right off the bat this changes the dynamics so that your fleets don't snowball into totally obscene sizes in the later game, and it arguably makes things like fallen empires more challenging because a size advantage for our empire will have to be a good deal bigger than now to outweigh the added bang for your buck of the non % setup.
- - - It also has the added effect of rewarding more developed empires that are able to defend their assets rather than relying on pops on planets without spaceports for such a sizeable chunk of fleet cap in huge sprawling empires.

2 - Introduce a fleet cap and lawfulness meter for systems with inhabited worlds.
- - - This produces the feel that many have wanted of having more ships around in the empire, and they can just patrol some random path. It also lays an important groundwork. The lawfulness meter would be on a scale from -100% to 100%. At positive lawfulness there are no benefits or penalties. The lawfulness meter would drift towards the % of the systems fleet cap currently filled with security ships.
- - - When the ships are away the meter would gradually tick down (faster if unrest is present) and generate unhappiness at negative values similar to how starvation is handled. Since happiness feeds into unrest this presents the potential for a snowballing effect (which may better produce conditions where the player can either screw over a very large empire that currently is hard to dismantle, or be screwed over in the same situation).

3 - Add a policy, with different options based on ethics, for how much unlawfulness can be tolerated in an empire.
- - - When a system reaches the problematic level of unlawfulness the security fleet would have to return home.

...which brings me to the main point:

4 - RALLY THE TROOPS
- - - With a reduced total fleet cap odds are good that the security fleets would collectively comprise around half of your fleet strength, possibly more. (The exact ratios could vary by ethics.)
- - - The various security fleets around your empire should be able to be rallied, either individually or collectively with a button on the fleet menu next to the "take point" one which would call your security fleets to support the main fleet.
- - - You would not be able to merge the security fleets but they would support the main fleet for as long as they were able, namely until the unlawfulness in their systems reached intolerable levels. A fleet that has left to restore order at home would have to have a cooldown before being able to be rallied again (assuming it wasn't destroyed).

The Implications (TLR):

1. A drawn out war, especially an offensive one in enemy territory, would generate attrition. Most systems would not have identical lawfulness - especially in sectors. Local fleet caps are unlikely to be full unless a very extended period of peace had been involved. This means that security fleets would gradually leave the main fleet one at a time until there are none left. Operating abroad indefinitely becomes impractical when the enemy may be able to more quickly bounce their security fleets around since they're in their home territory.

2. A defensive war has more options for manoeuvring. You could elect to rally only those fleets under threat of destruction, to preserve your efforts as long as possible, so long as you can continue to evade the enemy fleet, until attrition strips their main fleet of enough support for you to rally all of your forces and counterstrike.

3. It becomes a viable tactic to try an intercept security fleets as they attrition out of the main force in order to sow unrest in the opposing empire during the war.

Conclusion:

As I see it this would effectively solve the deathball mechanic, though it wouldn't be the simplest thing to implement. Did I miss anything?

 

[Malonex]

Might just be because I'm dead tired but I don't see how it would solve or help the doomstack problem. There isn't an incentive not to stack all of these law fleets together to imitate a doomstack, this just adds another thing to worry about but I do think fleets patrolling for some reason would be cool.

 

[Slynx]

i only saw 1 good implementation of security fleets: SDA mod from workshop (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=802551283)
mainly because it had nothing to do with doomstack. fleets it gave were uncontrollable

as for your idea...it'll hardly be a motivation for a player not to stack all available fleets into a bog death ball anyway during war conflict.

 

[Drakonn]

Might just be because I'm dead tired but I don't see how it would solve or help the doomstack problem. There isn't an incentive not to stack all of these law fleets together to imitate a doomstack, this just adds another thing to worry about but I do think fleets patrolling for some reason would be cool.

This is an interesting idea so long as all those fleets constantly moving about (and in AI empires) might cause us even more lag problems.

 

[Meneliki]

I appologize, but you lost me at

"Attrition in Spaaaace!!!!"

The idea of 'system security' ships has been proposed before(by me) and nothing has come of it.

edit: This post was not meant to sound mean.. im just sayin.

 

[MasterOfGrey]

Might just be because I'm dead tired but I don't see how it would solve or help the doomstack problem. There isn't an incentive not to stack all of these law fleets together to imitate a doomstack, this just adds another thing to worry about but I do think fleets patrolling for some reason would be cool.

Yes I know, and I think that's somewhat unavoidable in space combat, but the doomstack would no longer be unassailable since most of it would be operating on timers. You can't rely on doomstacking the entire war, and as a very large empire you might not want to doomstack every last ship because if they get destroyed your mineral income is unlikely to recover the lawfulness of your systems before you experience rebellion.

i only saw 1 good implementation of security fleets: SDA mod from workshop (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=802551283)
mainly because it had nothing to do with doomstack. fleets it gave were uncontrollable

as for your idea...it'll hardly be a motivation for a player not to stack all available fleets into a bog death ball anyway during war conflict.

I just looked at this mod, do they really provide any sort of useful addition in an invasion or do they just get massacred when anything bigger than an amoeba comes along?

Edit:

This is an interesting idea so long as all those fleets constantly moving about (and in AI empires) might cause us even more lag problems.

The hope is that the overall reduction in ship numbers might help mitigate some of the lag actually.

 

[Slynx]

I just looked at this mod, do they really provide any sort of useful addition in an invasion or do they just get massacred when anything bigger than an amoeba comes along?

depends.
if you invest in it (build ofices and a special starport module) it became stronger and stronger...sometimes it can even hold a small invasion a bit.
ofc in the endgame the numbers in fleet will become too high that you'll hardly even notice SDA