Attitude Towards Enemies

[Alyosha]

Playing as France I have Scotland as an ally. I'm currently at war with Spain and Portugal. I was not able to immediately call in Scotland to the war when it began because of a combination of low manpower and debt on their part. After about a year of fighting I was able to pay off their debt. Prior to doing so it was clear that even with the negative "reasons for joining" of low manpower that once the debt was cleared I would be able to call Scotland into the war.

However immediately after paying off the debt there is now a -52 "reasons for joining" based on "attitude towards enemies." In the past I have only encountered this modifier when opinion of the enemy was significantly positive. In my case Scotland has a negative opinion of Spain, Portugal, and all of their CNs, some to a significant degree (this negative opinion goes both ways).

I've reloaded and the situation persists. What gives?

 

[atwix]

is scotland hostile to them or friendly? they can be friendly to foreign nations but still desire their land due to being colonial themselves.. leading to negative opinion due to desiring land.. Or something.

But you are right, if ally nations are friendly to your war targets you will get the -60 to join on your ally.

 

[Alyosha]

Interesting. I’ll have to check when I load the save again but why would they be friendly at negative opinion? They’re different religions and Scotland has desires in the West Indies (Portuguese land - not the war leader).

I’m also curious why this reason was not listed prior to debt being paid off as I would have made different calculations.

Long story short after another couple of months the reasons against joining lowered a bit to around -40 - I was able to spend favors to get Scotland to join. I’d still love to know why this situation existed however and why the UI was inconsistent.

 

[cuendillar]

I think the most likely case is that Scotland was threatened, not friendly. It's the same malus for joining an offensive was (presumably because they're afraid of doing so) as if they had been friendly and quite a plausible attitude given that Scotland is typically both bordering and clearly weaker than England. I do not know what made them change attitude, I haven't figured out how that works, but possibly it reevaluated the threat level due to England getting weakened by the war with you.

 

[Alyosha]

I think the most likely case is that Scotland was threatened, not friendly. It's the same malus for joining an offensive was (presumably because they're afraid of doing so) as if they had been friendly and quite a plausible attitude given that Scotland is typically both bordering and clearly weaker than England. I do not know what made them change attitude, I haven't figured out how that works, but possibly it reevaluated the threat level due to England getting weakened by the war with you.

England wasn’t involved in the war on either side.

 

[cuendillar]

England wasn’t involved in the war on either side.

My apologies, I must have misread the post. I have no excuses except for being tired. However, it's still quite possible that Scotland was threatened by Spain. You can check attitude between AIs by going to the opinion map mode (the green heart one) and click on the country of interest (in this case Spain) and hover over other countries to see their attitude and opinion towards that country.

 

[Alyosha]

My apologies, I must have misread the post. I have no excuses except for being tired. However, it's still quite possible that Scotland was threatened by Spain. You can check attitude between AIs by going to the opinion map mode (the green heart one) and click on the country of interest (in this case Spain) and hover over other countries to see their attitude and opinion towards that country.

I genuinely wasn’t aware threatened would cause a country to reject an alliance call. I was under the impression it had to do with high positive relations. If the attitude aspect matters that certainly explains it.