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Nuukov

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I united Persia as Atropatene earlier, my starting strat was integrating Cadusian to Nobles, befriending Selucus Nicator and using the Entice governor character interaction to steal large tracts of land from the Selucids starting with the rest of the Media region. For some reason the Selucids never went to attack me when I did this, and their lands are constantly going disloyal because of their stability problems

This sounds like a good strategy, but I wonder if it can be repeated reliably. I tried to entice the Seleukid governor too, but they manged to stabilise the province and it never dropped below 50 provincial loyalty.
 
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GPenguin121

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This sounds like a good strategy, but I wonder if it can be repeated reliably. I tried to entice the Seleukid governor too, but they manged to stabilise the province and it never dropped below 50 provincial loyalty.
You do occasionally get that, but, atleast in my run, I managed to take most of the Iran region off them by doing that
 
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Nuukov

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So I've managed to get off to decent start and form Media, currently I am just building up my economy and army and waiting for the Seleukids to be engaged in a war again so I can take more land. My strategy to get to this point was as follows:

I allied Armenia and gave them gifts and improved relations to keep them happy as my ally. I have found that it is important to NOT ally anyone near Armenia as they desire all the land around them, so allying JUST Armenia and bribing them seems to stop them from wanting to conquer you. Next I integrated Cadusian culture and changed my laws to allow me to have a legion. I then saved up money and attacked the Seleukids as soon as Cadusian culture was integrated (they were still at war with the Antigonids). I then occupied as many nearby provinces that I could including some forts and by hiring two mercenary stacks (and sacking cities to pay for their upkeep) I managed to beat some Seleukid armies. Eventually Baktria showed up with their 25k stack and peaced out for the two provinces you need to form Media. Now, it is just a waiting game, looking for an opportune moment to strike!


20210319194707_1.jpg
 
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Rabid

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Having played this start a few times since 2.0 (I have a tendancy to restart games to try different strategies) I think I like conquering Armenia first the most. Armenia very consistently gets itself involved in early wars and if you jump them with a high quality merc stack while they're busy elsewhere you can quickly snatch some territory from them. You only need to take 1 or 2 provinces in the first war and the subsequent wars become extremely easy (take the most annoying forts first). If you get military access through and / or conquer Albania and Iberia then you can bypass the Armenian forts and go directly for their two most urbanised provinces for quick warscore. In my experience Iberia is a solid ally. You'll need 2 or 3 wars with Armenia depending on the exact circumstances and how much AE you're willing to take on at once. You can start integrating Armenian culture on day 1 as you start with some Armenian pops.

This lets you get some decently large, high quality levies before going to war with the Seleucids, without having to integrate Cadusian culture. Avoiding the stability loss from the extra integration lets you expand more aggressively in the early game and gives more leeway to change laws etc.
 
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Nuukov

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Having played this start a few times since 2.0 (I have a tendancy to restart games to try different strategies) I think I like conquering Armenia first the most. Armenia very consistently gets itself involved in early wars and if you jump them with a high quality merc stack while they're busy elsewhere you can quickly snatch some territory from them. You only need to take 1 or 2 provinces in the first war and the subsequent wars become extremely easy (take the most annoying forts first). If you get military access through and / or conquer Albania and Iberia then you can bypass the Armenian forts and go directly for their two most urbanised provinces for quick warscore. In my experience Iberia is a solid ally. You'll need 2 or 3 wars with Armenia depending on the exact circumstances and how much AE you're willing to take on at once. You can start integrating Armenian culture on day 1 as you start with some Armenian pops.

This lets you get some decently large, high quality levies before going to war with the Seleucids, without having to integrate Cadusian culture. Avoiding the stability loss from the extra integration lets you expand more aggressively in the early game and gives more leeway to change laws etc.

That sounds interesting, I always considered Armenia unbeatable. I'll have to try that some time, thanks! (Care to post a screenshot of your run if you have one?)
 
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Rabid

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That sounds interesting, I always considered Armenia unbeatable. I'll have to try that some time, thanks! (Care to post a screenshot of your run if you have one?)
I've been stuck here since the weekend since I'm about to go to war with that gigantic Seleucid Empire, it's probably going to be a big one and I want to get it done in one sitting. I've spent a fair bit of time just burning down AE, I think I went to about 60 after the 2nd Armenian war and 70 after the 3rd one. I conquered Albania purely to have something to do in the early game while waiting for a good opportunity to jump on Armenia so that I wasn't sitting at 0 AE. I've assimilated about half the Cadusians and most of the Albanians into Median culture by now. Armenian is the only integrated culture (and they get to be the Honour Guard for extra happiness), the others all have colonies set up and are being aggressively culture converted. I have a little over 1K integrated pops and a little under 1k Zoroastrian pops.

Compared to my previous attempts my tech situation is much better (due to not having integrated so many cultures, and I could also afford to found a couple of cities) and I was able to pass the culture conversion law more quickly - although my economy is overall smaller.

I'm allied with Thrace, Antigonid Macedon and Zanthia and the Seleucids are currently at war with Egypt so it's not as scary as it looks! Iberia unfortunately decided to start an extremely poorly timed war with the Bosporans so I had to let them get beaten up.

859580_screenshots_20210323225906_1.jpg
 
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Nuukov

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@Rabid That's quite a good start and has probably left you in a more powerful situation than my start. I've needed to sit tight for now building up my cities while waiting for an opportune moment to attack the Seleukids for a second time. Thankfully, that moment came when they went to war with Maurya, although the Seleukids did an immediate u-turn with their armies and focused me over the Mauryans. I managed to emerge victorious with some mercenary support. I called in Albania and Dahae as allies and I could call in Armenia a little later after the war started. I have managed to consolidate the whole region of Media. I will look for another opportunity to attack the Seleukids in the future, though I may also attack Albania in some time. It is a pretty slow game, but thankfully I've already got the "Three Great Fires" achievement so I am not in any rush to form Persia.

Otherwise it has gone pretty well, I have managed to get my research efficiency up to 175% and I even turned Hagmatana into a Metropolis!

20210324182402_1.jpg
 
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IsaacCAT

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So far as Atropatene I've only managed sucess with a friend in multiplayer being Maurya and helping me occasionally. Otherwise I find the Seleucids and their billion allies swarm me, even if I optimize my armies to be able to defeat theirs in open battle, there are just too many of theirs.
You cannot defeat them in fair battle. Use the strategies explained in this threat. TLDR use light cavalry to win sack their undefended cities and make their armies follow your fast armies while you keep your slow armies at home to defend the wargoal. Wait to strike when seleukid is at civilwar and fighting someone else.
 

AggaWackTan

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So far as Atropatene I've only managed sucess with a friend in multiplayer being Maurya and helping me occasionally. Otherwise I find the Seleucids and their billion allies swarm me, even if I optimize my armies to be able to defeat theirs in open battle, there are just too many of theirs.

Yeah like what @IsaacCAT sad;

You don't win the war by fighting battles. You really have to play on slower speed for the first 1 or 2 wars.

1) WAIT.. If the seleucids don't get sucked into a LOA war with Antigonids, I'd advise starting over.
2)Integrate cadusian pops, this can take a few years so let the Seleucids get sucked into war far in the west.
3) Ally Armenia, improve relations and send gifts. If they 'plan your demise' then ally Albania too even if this means going over diplo slots. This should deter Armenia from declaring war.
4)At about 454-455 when the Seleucids are still fighting the Antigonids raise your levies.
5) Choose your wargoal very carefully. Make sure its easy to siege down quickly and easy to defend. The 25 warscore is important. Call in Armenia.
6) Take time managing your levies, I divide them into 3-4 mini stack of cavalry units that will sprint far into seleucid lands and SACK cities for as much gold as possible (King commanding all of them). Speed is important here so have cavalry lined up on the border like the start of a horserace here. The seleucids won't match you for speed. Sack as far as Persepolis and into the Persian Gulf all along the coast so that as much land is occupied as possible. If you have only cavalry in your small raiding units you'll be surprised how much work they can do. AVOID battles.
7) Hold back ALL your Infantry and immediately siege down the wargoal and as many forts as possible, Hopefully Armenia should have at least 15,000-20,000 levies that can take care of one seleucid army returning from the West buying you some time. Avoid Bactrian stacks as much as possible and try to lure them with your cav deep into Persia to recover cities that will keep them away from the wargoal. Send some cavalry near Bactria to scout them out and lure them away from your land.
8) Your warchest should be huge from sacking. Hire mercenaries, as large as you can and with the best commander. The seleucids are going to start sending mercenaries soon as they can't reach you fast enough with their armies and the Bactrians are busy chasing your small quick cav units around.
9) You should have the wargoal and much of the Eastern lands occupied and now is the time for some battles so choose wisely. defend the wargoal and use mercenaries to fight small stacks where possible.
10) If done well you should have 50ish warscore by now, take 2-3 provinces as if you leave the war drag on you'll eventually find its the seleucids who have more resources. You should be able to form Media.
11) For the second war use the same strategy, but your starting position will be even stronger. Rinse and repeat.
 
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