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IsaacCAT

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@IsaacCAT I hope you keep playing and post a few AAR here! Imo Atropatene looks like a challenging but interesting faction to play with 2.0.
I am trying to prove @Rabid strategy for Antropatene. I think is the best and only one, as you want to increase your levies to wage war and that is only possible if you integrate cultures with a lot of POPs while expanding. In this case, the Armenian Culture is the best candidate as they have cities already built with a lot of POPs and a good level of civilization, contrary to the Albanians, the other candidate culture.

1615046222383.png


To keep peace in the non integrated culture provinces I have decided to go low taxes, low army maintenance when not at war (no legion) and increase wages. The trade routes "technology" investment is paying off, as I have a nice balance of +7.72. You need at least 400 to hire those mercs. I would say that high general mercs are more efficient than large mercs armies, as it is difficult to come by a governor with XIII martial level, and a small merc army with a high martial level is quite affordable.

The map after my second war with Armenia looks like this now. Armenian are my most populous culture and there are three more provinces to grab. I made them release Kerausous on the coast of Sea Pontus Euxinus. They are Colchian culture and I do not need them. What I need is to vassalize Albania and Iberia. I have to remember to negotiate with them when I have my levies, because when you do not have them rised they do not count on the current strength value.

1615046147844.png
 
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Synen

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In my current Armenia run I decided to go with a legion/mercenary combo and it's pretty effective. My mercenary armies are mainly used for sieging while I went for a highly mobile light/heavy cavalry and horse archer legion whose only goal is to kill as many armies as quickly as possible and occasionally cap provinical capitals that don't have forts. It would probably be even more effective if I had forced march but even without it I have been beating the Seleucids one on one. In my last war with the Seleucids they attacked me and I got like +40 warscore from winning battles alone.
 
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IsaacCAT

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In my current Armenia run I decided to go with a legion/mercenary combo and it's pretty effective. My mercenary armies are mainly used for sieging while I went for a highly mobile light/heavy cavalry and horse archer legion whose only goal is to kill as many armies as quickly as possible and occasionally cap provinical capitals that don't have forts. It would probably be even more effective if I had forced march but even without it I have been beating the Seleucids one on one. In my last war with the Seleucids they attacked me and I got like +40 warscore from winning battles alone.
I have 56 levies now, how strong were you the first time you attacked the Seleukids?
 

Synen

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My current legion is 51 cohorts (can get 17 more cohorts) with another 64 cohorts from mercenary armies and that was with my 3rd war. In my 1st war I had a legion of 46 cohorts of which 18 were at the time part of 2 siege stacks. I also had Cappadocia, Parnia and Pontus as allies. I only nibbled at them and took 2 provinces.

While my mobile battle army and 2x siege stacks were effective for most of the war I did notice that I lacked the numbers to be able to effectively use a mobile battle army together with smaller siege stacks as part of the same legion so I just took what I could take from the Seleucids and peaced out.

Because I was capped with max cohorts already I decided to replace my siege stacks with mercenary armies for sieging and have big mobile battle army instead. This combination is working a lot better and the more income I get the more mercenary armies I can hire to be able to siege more. I'm most likely going to split my mobile battle army into 2 medium sized armies when I get a higher cohort cap for my legion.
 
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IsaacCAT

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The time has arrived, Seleukid has declared on me. The table is set, let's hope for the best. (they are asking for Vespukaran)

1615054077764.png
 
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Aethis

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I used to really enjoy Atropatene as well. What would make it more interesting now, for the region in general, is events/missions for Bactria to make them disloyal and possibly break free. You should be able to sieze Media while the Seleukids are fighting the Antigonids but they seem to magic armies out of nowhere, I hope this gets fixed with limits on merc armies.

I'd rather keep Armenia as a powerful Zoroastrian ally and focus on Persia, seems it's not possible yet unless you get lucky and the Antigonids win somehow?
 
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IsaacCAT

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I have lost the war and had to give up Vespukaran. Too many armies those Selukids. They have killed 23 of my POPs. I have won most of the battles and we have lost almost the same number of men (~25,000) but I could not keep up. And now Maurya has attacked them, lost opportunity ... or not?

Merc armies are not that expensive if you do not disband them and only use the small ones with a top notch general. I think I have been wasting money, now I am going to keep them around.

On the other hand, increased pay is the way to go if you do not have legions, a +10,00% morale boost almost free!

The map as it is now:

1615057839287.png
 
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Rabid

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I think the reason that I didn't get declared on so early by the Seleucids when using a similar strategy is that I had a large Dahae and Pontus and later Bosporan Kingdom as allies - the AI seems to value your allies' strength very highly when looking to declare war, which is another reason why I like the "get temples then theaters" invention strategy as it gives additional diplomatic relations, which are particularly useful when playing on this part of the map which tends to quickly resolve into several medium-size states you can ally with.
 
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AggaWackTan

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This got me interested in trying this run as well, I never thought of trying them before. I think for now Rome campaigns can wait for the future because these runs are actually so much more fun in the game. This run is on normal difficulty, I'll try it on hard maybe again.

So I tried what you guys did, immediately integrated the Cadusian culture and used all my inital innovation points on slave output and techs that grant extra pops. By 455 I had 26 cohorts in media and 2 each from albania and armenia and put a 7 martial governor in both, my king was 7 martial too. I spent no money but due to slaves and and tax I was making 8+ gold a month and had saved up a 500 gold warchest.

I allied Armenia who had a lovely 24.000 stack levy so altogether we had 39,000 troops between us and I hired a 4,000 merc army with a 9 martial and another 3,500 stack with a 12 martial general.

By 455 the Seleucids had been fighting the Antigonids for 3+ years and were beating them all the way back to Phrgia and I guessed now was as good a time as ever.

46,500 men ready to invade Media Felix in the heart of Median land in the Seleucid Empire, went straight for the head.

I really micromanaged the war, split the armies out, reduced attrition to an absolute minimum, sent the 2k stacks far into enemy territory and sieged capital provinces as the seleucids don't build enough forts. The Bactrians turned up with a 25k stack after I sieged all Media and into Persis, I kind of panicked at that point as I has spread my armies out too much, and I thought due to mountain passes they had actually cut my armies apart, but they chased the 2k stack around and I was able to combine my armies again. I didn't engage at all so I didn't fight one evenly matched battle, just picked off small stacks where I could find them and used my 2k stack to resiege everything the Bactrian stack sieged. Eventually the seleucids arrived but my warscore was 45 so I peaced out asap and took 3 provinces all median pops and formed Media.

I spent 460-485 on the build up Media tree to maximise my economy and let the AE go down, and helped Armenia beat Albania but they decided to cancel the alliance (even though opinion was +100). All military traditions gone into Persian Rural to get those crazy good cav bonuses as I have plenty of heavy cav, light cav and horse archers. I have a lot of slaves and they're really driving down happiness and I've integrated Persian and Cadussian. The seleucids got into another war in 485 when the Parnian nomads got the special event and killed Antiochus. I allowed as many seleucid armies to pass the Persian mountains towards Sogdia before I unleashed another storm, this time with 66 cohorts and no allies but enough money to hire a 11,000 + 4,000 + 3,500 merc army. So about 50,000 men again. By 495 I was able to get a 100 warscore cost victory on bellicose stance; made sure to take Babylon as I want their main levy gone.

Screenshot (62).png


My pops are really unhappy now though due to AE and stab is falling quick, so we'll see how long this lasts, I've dumped all my PI into pig stabbing and I'm gonna change governor policies where I can, I may also revoke some culture rights;

Screenshot (66).png


My economy is very decent though so I may just build forums/ mills everywhere I can as well as make sure all capital bonuses are for happiness only. The Parnians aren't really using that CB as well as they could be, but at least the Seleucids are now cut down the middle and those 2 are scrapping while I try to get back on track
 

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Battlex

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This got me interested in trying this run as well, I never thought of trying them before. I think for now Rome campaigns can wait for the future because these runs are actually so much more fun in the game. This run is on normal difficulty, I'll try it on hard maybe again.

So I tried what you guys did, immediately integrated the Cadusian culture and used all my inital innovation points on slave output and techs that grant extra pops. By 455 I had 26 cohorts in media and 2 each from albania and armenia and put a 7 martial governor in both, my king was 7 martial too. I spent no money but due to slaves and and tax I was making 8+ gold a month and had saved up a 500 gold warchest.

I allied Armenia who had a lovely 24.000 stack levy so altogether we had 39,000 troops between us and I hired a 4,000 merc army with a 9 martial and another 3,500 stack with a 12 martial general.

By 455 the Seleucids had been fighting the Antigonids for 3+ years and were beating them all the way back to Phrgia and I guessed now was as good a time as ever.

46,500 men ready to invade Media Felix in the heart of Median land in the Seleucid Empire, went straight for the head.

I really micromanaged the war, split the armies out, reduced attrition to an absolute minimum, sent the 2k stacks far into enemy territory and sieged capital provinces as the seleucids don't build enough forts. The Bactrians turned up with a 25k stack after I sieged all Media and into Persis, I kind of panicked at that point as I has spread my armies out too much, and I thought due to mountain passes they had actually cut my armies apart, but they chased the 2k stack around and I was able to combine my armies again. I didn't engage at all so I didn't fight one evenly matched battle, just picked off small stacks where I could find them and used my 2k stack to resiege everything the Bactrian stack sieged. Eventually the seleucids arrived but my warscore was 45 so I peaced out asap and took 3 provinces all median pops and formed Media.

I spent 460-485 on the build up Media tree to maximise my economy and let the AE go down, and helped Armenia beat Albania but they decided to cancel the alliance (even though opinion was +100). All military traditions gone into Persian Rural to get those crazy good cav bonuses as I have plenty of heavy cav, light cav and horse archers. I have a lot of slaves and they're really driving down happiness and I've integrated Persian and Cadussian. The seleucids got into another war in 485 when the Parnian nomads got the special event and killed Antiochus. I allowed as many seleucid armies to pass the Persian mountains towards Sogdia before I unleashed another storm, this time with 66 cohorts and no allies but enough money to hire a 11,000 + 4,000 + 3,500 merc army. So about 50,000 men again. By 495 I was able to get a 100 warscore cost victory on bellicose stance; made sure to take Babylon as I want their main levy gone.

View attachment 689600

My pops are really unhappy now though due to AE and stab is falling quick, so we'll see how long this lasts, I've dumped all my PI into pig stabbing and I'm gonna change governor policies where I can, I may also revoke some culture rights;

View attachment 689603

My economy is very decent though so I may just build forums/ mills everywhere I can as well as make sure all capital bonuses are for happiness only. The Parnians aren't really using that CB as well as they could be, but at least the Seleucids are now cut down the middle and those 2 are scrapping while I try to get back on track
You could grant rights but not fully integrate some of the cultures to make them more happy
 
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IsaacCAT

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sent the 2k stacks far into enemy territory and sieged capital provinces as the seleucids don't build enough forts.

but they chased the 2k stack around
With the vast Seleukid empire I see this as crucial for your success. Congratulations! In Hard campaing it is almost impossible to see rebellions/civil wars.

I will try this in my game, you really need to bring the war to their territories
 
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IsaacCAT

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Which is kinda ironic considering it was mainly rebellions and civil wars with a bit of Rome mixed in that brought down the Seleucids.
Difficulty level does not mean historical accuracy. I do not mind buffing the AI with the difficulty level.

However, in normal difficulty I would like to see empires implode. Quick to raise, easy to implode. That is the Alexander true legacy on empire building.
 
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Decius

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Difficulty level does not mean historical accuracy. I do not mind buffing the AI with the difficulty level.

However, in normal difficulty I would like to see empires implode. Quick to raise, easy to implode. That is the Alexander true legacy on empire building.
Change normal difficulty to easy and very easy and I agree! I would like to keep a game mode, where the AI is a challenge, but without major overall buffs. I know the province loyalty buff and the antigonist buff are already strong, but imo they fullfill currently a good purpose and are not as much as the buffs on higher difficulties.

If the AI is gonna be decent one day, even without buffs, I'm okay with them having on normal no or a very low province loyalty buff.
 
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Synen

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So I tried what you guys did, immediately integrated the Cadusian culture and used all my inital innovation points on slave output and techs that grant extra pops. By 455 I had 26 cohorts in media and 2 each from albania and armenia and put a 7 martial governor in both, my king was 7 martial too. I spent no money but due to slaves and and tax I was making 8+ gold a month and had saved up a 500 gold warchest.
Out of curiosity is putting innovation points into slave output worth the points over putting them into trade/commerce? In every run at the very least 80% of my income is from trade/commerce and only a small part of it is from taxes.
 

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Out of curiosity is putting innovation points into slave output worth the points over putting them into trade/commerce? In every run at the very least 80% of my income is from trade/commerce and only a small part of it is from taxes.

At the start I didn't have enough pops to have a surplus so most of my income was tax. So initially it's worth it for slave output but down the line commerce income is definitely better. It's just about balancing how to get ahead for the point in the campaign you are. My thinking at the start was getting from 4 gold a month to 8 gold a month just to be able to pay for merc upkeep as that's usually 3 gold a month, and I needed 2 merc armies.

Update on the campaign; so that AE was awful but I left it run down for another 20 years, gave pop rights like @Battlex said when it didn't cost stability, all capital trades for happiness, sent my king around to provinces to increase loyalty, micro managed trade in each province to bring in pop bonuses. The Parnians were getting really aggressive and beating the hell out of the seleucids so I didn't want any rebellions incase it encouraged them to attack, luckily they didn't. The beat Seleucids and formed Parthia but then fell into a huge civil war around the time my AE fell to 20. At this point commerce is really the main income so I'm flowing in cash and happiness is under control. The war started rocky but after a few big victories I started to roll over them and conquered everything I needed to form Persia.

Screenshot (67).png


The Seleucids are well and truly gone now, there's still a Seleucid empire tag around Pergamon and under Armenia but it's more of a rump kingdom. I also forgot to take a one territory province in the east which was kind of annoying.

From here now I think I'm going to calm and solidify. My rulers are quite bad despite placing them as disciples from day 1 and getting them a mentor at 12. I had a second son get to 10 martial but they're other skills are very poor and I think I've a bug now where when I select 'find spouse' for my king the scheme automatically just finishes every time with no spouse found, so I married him to a 36 yr old and hopefully they have a child.

I'm gonna really focus on religious and civic ideas for Political influence and city founding discounts. I'm kind of struggling for PI and I really want to found a lot of new Persian cities around the Caspian sea and Persian Gulf. Also need to make loads of new roads as travel time is massively increased through the mountains I find.

Maybe when I've transformed the empire into a major economic and cultured centre I'll use my techs to get the 'Win land by the Spear' CB, and go West, putting an end to Egypt in one massive campaign.
 
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AggaWackTan

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@IsaacCAT

Yeah I might have gotten lucky because I think in hard difficulty I wouldn't have had the opportunites to take advantage of the civil wars the Parthians had and the Seleucid legion might have gotten the better of my levies on a few occassions! I'm going to finish this run as it's good fun but when it's over I'm going to see if everything I did here work well on hard difficulty. It's a good campaign though, really fun
 
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IsaacCAT

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@IsaacCAT

Yeah I might have gotten lucky because I think in hard difficulty I wouldn't have had the opportunites to take advantage of the civil wars the Parthians had and the Seleucid legion might have gotten the better of my levies on a few occassions! I'm going to finish this run as it's good fun but when it's over I'm going to see if everything I did here work well on hard difficulty. It's a good campaign though, really fun
Your strategy is spot on, I have tried it while the Seleukids where having a revolt and being attacked by Zanthia and it has been a bloodshed:

1615137352401.png


I have split my levies in cavalry only armies, while the other part of the levy was with high martial generals laying sieges. They have raid all along the Seleukid Empire without anyone stopping me. The forts issue is a problem. They have to teach AI to build forts in the Province capital.

Now is time to settle down that AE and enjoy my Medians, lovely.

1615137498388.png
 
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