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Surimi

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A think a big problem here is that we run up against the limitations of the war support system.

The nuclear bombs dropped on Japan were very destructive and probably had an exceptional psychological impact given how unexpected and how horrible they were. However, Japan at the time was run by the military, and the military basically didn't care about a bunch of civilians being bombed. It's the same problem with the logic of stategic bombing in Europe, because it turns out if you bomb people in autocratic regimes, those people can't vote to end the conflict because they can't vote. They can't speak out in favor of peace, because the government will arrest and probably kill them. This whole idea that you can end a war by breaking the civilian morale doesn't really work if those civilians can't do anything about their broken morale. Meanwhile, their leaders can just choose not to care, which is what the Japanese government did.

The writing was on the wall long before the bombs were dropped, and it was obvious to the Japanese leadership that they had lost the war. The problem was that the US would only accept unconditional surrender, and the Japanese government really, really didn't want to give that, so they kept holding out that if they just continued the war eventually the US would change its mind and agree to more favorable surrender terms.

The war ended because the US (who unlike the Japanese government were actually worried about the invasion of Manchuria because it could mean the Soviets siezing land in East Asia) sent a note specifically demanding that the Emperor give the order to Japanese troops to surrender. The implication was meant to be taken that the Emperor would not be harmed or deposed, thus satisfying the main condition for Japanese surrender. Even then, large sections of the Japanese cabinet didn't want to accept, and the deadlock had to be broken by Emperor Hirohito himself, who stated his belief that they should accept the US' terms.

So basically, the war was already lost. Japan was already ready to surrender, but the military government was fanatically opposed to the idea of any surrender that might threaten the Emperor's position. They were quite happy for massive numbers of civilians to die if it meant avoiding that outcome, and I'm pretty sure some of them would have been perfectly content with every single person in Japan dying before accepting that outcome. The nuclear bombs didn't really influence the decision at all, beyond being a convenient thing for Hirohito to lay the blame on in his speech announcing the surrender, because the members of the government in charge of making the decision weren't the ones suffering the effects.
 
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Harin

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While I have read all the posts with some fascination, for me personally, I would like to see atomic bombs in game to be updated with an option under Custom Game that lets me turn them off.
 
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bERt0r

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Okay, yeah, I mean, sure, as much as people like to downplay the fact that the atomic bombs were in fact a huge deal (and sure, Japan was already on their last leg). It was an unprecedent level of destruction caused by a single B-29. Dropping nukes on other country while not necessarily an insta-capitulation button, should significantly drop their stability and war support.
As mentioned before, the destruction was by no means unprecedented and the effect is a bit exaggerated due to Japanese wooden buildings lighting up like tinder.
 
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AskingForIt138

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As mentioned before, the destruction was by no means unprecedented and the effect is a bit exaggerated due to Japanese wooden buildings lighting up like tinder.

I think you've made your point and debating the effects of the atomic bomb is no longer becoming productive for the conversation. If you have no new points or ideas to add, I'll request that you please stop rehashing this in the thread. Or continue on with it in direct messages.
 
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Whoman69

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To me its one of the few things they haven't gone to micromanaged. I am glad of that because too much has gone on to be micromanaged. One thing that should be worked is the effect of the bomb. Japan will surrender after 2 bombs. The Soviets won't even after a few dozen. A bomb in game terms should destroy factories and infrastructure. Any units guarding that city should be greatly degraded.
 
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$ilent_$trider

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The soviets weren’t nuked even once, let alone a dozen times. So this kind of comparison feels a little bit ludicrous.
 
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$ilent_$trider

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P
In game

The only people who can be forced to surrender via atomics are the Japanese. Otherwise they do all of nothing to the capitulation process
it wasn’t clear at all by what he said. Besides, it’s not only being nuked twice, nuking twice is the last step where the other ones are having less than X ships and lost control of Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
And if you nuke them twice but don’t reduce their navy size nor take control of Iwo Jima and Okinawa in 180 days, I think, you won’t capitulate them.
 

Louella

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Japan is set up to capitulate when it is effectively beaten and struck twice with atom bombs, so that it will actually capitulate without a naval invasion.
Previously you had to actually invade which was a pain due to supply, available ports, airbase availability and other things.
 
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