Atheism
- Thread starter Nox the Invicible
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"Cynical" is generally considered to be the trait that most describes an atheist in CK2 terminology, or at the very least an extreme doubter or skeptic or religious pragmatist.
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Apart from anything else, religion in the game is as much about cultural affiliation as it is anything else. Even if there were significant amounts of people who truly had no belief in the supernatural during time frame (which I generally doubt) it would still be pointless to implement as a separate religion in game as they largely lived the same way as everyone else. The catholic king who does not believe in god, is still a catholic king who still follows catholic customs, rules a catholic kingdom and would likely be overthrown in a second if he declared that god was dead, not least because he derives his legitimacy from the heavens. Hell, even today atheists are generally indistinguishable from the religious part of the population, and while that is partly because of low religiosity amongst the religious, it is also partly because most atheists still follow cultural traditions that are essentially religious in origin - atheism simply being a lack of belief in god, and (unfortunately) not a guarantee that someone has actually bothered to consider the root of their morality in any meaningful or relevant manner, but in the middle ages? Given that it could get you killed to say so you'd probably keep your mouth shut anyway.
In CK2 terms the closest you can do is have a character with cynical and generally not pay religion much heed other than lip service, which unless I'm mistaken is pretty much realistic for the time period.
In CK2 terms the closest you can do is have a character with cynical and generally not pay religion much heed other than lip service, which unless I'm mistaken is pretty much realistic for the time period.
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Because if someone publicly revealed that they were an "Atheist" at this time bad things would happen.
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Honestly for being called Crusader Kings 2, the game has actualy very little with crusades to do. Out of the 12-13 "major" religions, not even considering all the heresies, 4 of them dont even have anything similar to crusades. And only 2 of the 8 remaining actualy have much flavor, which is Sunni and Christianity, they have traits related and I belive also events. While for all the reformed pagans there are only unflavored GHW which I guess makes them more balanced against Sunni and Christianity. But none of them have related events or traits.
And with Charlemagne + Old Gods you move further and further away from actualy getting crusades.
And even for Sunni and Christianity the events for jihad and crusade are actualy few and far between I think, and not really that much of a flavor to them...
Its really only called Crusader Kings because just "Kings" is a pretty bland name
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Well, you could try Jainism, which is not an explicitly theistic religion and explicitly rejects the existence of a creator god. On the other hand, it's also not explicitly atheistic.
If "Atheism to CK2" why not "sovietism"? Or "hitlerism"? Or "bonapartism"?
To XVII century atheism was always faith for little number of people across Europe and great dispersal (on all Europie, in this same time no more than 1k)
To XVII century atheism was always faith for little number of people across Europe and great dispersal (on all Europie, in this same time no more than 1k)
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*Facepalm* Atheism is not a faith its a rational principle, and therefore cannot and should not be equated with those fiendish political ideologies which you've so banally stated. Also since there were no figures accounting for those who had no faith whatsoever (as thought-police hadn't been invented yet), your figures are fictional. In regard to the OP on the other-hand, I believe the "cynical" trait suffices perfectly; though a comical event chain involving a cynic, a clergyman and a Norseman walking into a pub would be epic.
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you believe that your "ratio" (ratio in latin - i dont know how in english) works well, that the empirical world is real etc. But why? Why are you not a "brain in jar" mad scientist? Or this all is not a MATRIX? Or dream of xenomorph in a coma? Very limited rationalism...
The brain works through electrical impulses and biochemy - inject some other chemicals, and you will be a hippie believer in cosmic energy. Several electroconvulsive therapy and completely change your personality and completely different way of thinking. Which way of thinking is objectively correct? Or a madman in psych learned the truth? But since we all live in a lie, so he are for us madman?
Why do you think that your way of thinking is correct? Narcism? You are the you, so you are right?
Where is "rational principle"? Nowhere...
So yes - atheism is faith. Like a faith in reality of the world, or that the senses show the truth about the world, or that we live, or that god exist... All based on faith...
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Faith implies worship in a particular object. Atheism is a principle that eschews faith, especially if it is without any form a logical backing or physical evidence. As to your insinuations stating that I believe "my way of thinking to be correct", I implore you to point out where in my previous paragraph I stated such a ludicrous statement. To retort however, your bringing up in this conversation the likes of the Matrix or xenomorphs can be construed as lacking propensity in the English language (which is perfectly understandable) or that of the ravings of a madman. Atheism IS a rational principle as it reflects upon the fact that theism itself is lacking not only in basic scientific evidence, but also that nearly all theistic faith-systems are lacking in any semblance of scientific theory and/or philosophical logic. Nonetheless it is your prerogative to believe what you wish to believe as, if I may be so bold as to quote Voltaire: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".
On the subject however, the Cynical trait is sensible for the game in representing "a sceptical mind"; and as scepticism is a guarantee fundamental when understanding the nature of the human mind - it is bound to make individuals living in during the time-frame of the game to doubt the esoteric and spiritual bedrock in which medieval societies revolved themselves around. Hence, unless you are trying to comprehend a sort of duality with your statement; it can only logically be deduced that both of us shall remain in state of irreconcilable disagreement.
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And yet deciding to unilaterally convert to Zoroastrianism just so you can justify shagging your sister is okay ? If a player can choose to try and turn his entire kingdom into an Ibadi enclave in the middle of Saxony or a Norse outpost in North Africa then I see no reason why he can't also decide to say "There is no God - we live in a cold and sterile universe".
Would he take HEAPS of shit for it ? Certainly. Would he probably be assassinated or overthrown because of it ? Again, certainly. But that's the risks you take when you try to change the world view of an entire realm.
Besides, speaking as an agnostic myself I think that treating "Atheism" as a religion would be great - imagine the possibilities ! Turning Churches into Universities, Bishops into Academics, increasing technology gain, reduced diseases, increased status of women etc.
Oh, and Holy War from every single damned country on the map !
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Atheism wasn't a political force during the game's time period.
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Of course piety should be renamed euphoria and all Atheist academics need to wear fedora's.
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