At what % Power is it better to steer than collect?

[mackwolfe]

Say you have 2 trade nodes A--->B . You have power in both. You are collecting in B ( either home node or merchant). You have a merchant to allocate to A.

At what degree of control of B should you steer from A, versus collect in A with the merchant?

Per wiki, having a merchant collect in A will halve your power in A. So steering doubles the trade value you control and you will come ahead with steering as long as you control B more than 50%.

Yet my experience is that usually you make more money collecting in A than steering , unless B power is about 65% or more.

What is the magic % control of B that you need as a rule of thumb to steer rather than collect?

 

[IndianSummer]

If you have just two merchants, your best answer is just trial and error (1 click and one month tick and you see the difference), it is too simple too find it out that way than to determine and remind a tipping point. If you have more merchants and more nodes it will be a whole different story and it can't be summarized by a simple single percentage in your home node at least not that I have found out yet.

 

[mackwolfe]

If you have just two merchants, your best answer is just trial and error (1 click and one month tick and you see the difference), it is too simple too find it out that way than to determine and remind a tipping point. If you have more merchants and more nodes it will be a whole different story and it can't be summarized by a simple single percentage in your home node at least not that I have found out yet.

It really is more complicated in my scenario. I need to decide whether to move my trade capital , so trial and error is not really feasible.

 

[Vetgirig]

You also need to think about the future conquests and how they change your trade income.

 

[Dominion]

Well if it's really that important to you, here's a calculator

And you can't get a magical % number for one simple reason: Trade is not being steered in only one direction and only by you.

Could be that more nations are steering in your favor, could be that there are already five nations steering (which, if I am up-to-date, is the number after which efficiency drastically drecreases), could be a lot of factors.

Rather than trying to optimize it I would recommend just correcting the most grave mistakes the AI does for you when controlling your merchants.

 

[Ironside121]

Far too many factors for us to be able to judge without any info at all. Just calculate the % of the total in each node, then collect from there.

 

[mackwolfe]

Far too many factors for us to be able to judge without any info at all

Agree . But that is why I asked about a rough rule of thumb. I am pretty sure that you do not want to steer to a node where you only have 25% power , for example. I am pretty sure you should steer to a node where you have 90% power . unless you have 100% upstream .

Having thought about this some more, the % power in A clearly matters a lot . So here is my answer to my own question

POWER IN A       POWER  IN A when COLLECTING       Break Even POWER IN B needed to make steering from A->B profitable
100%             100%                              None - always collect in A if you have 100% power in A
80%              67%                               84% ( 67/80)
60%              42%                               70%
50%              33%                               67%
40%              25%                               63%
20%              11%                               55%
10%              5%                                50%

 

[Toni Martoni]

You're not supposed to collect in a node you have only 25% influence are you?

 

[Indigo Blue]

Say you have 2 trade nodes A--->B . You have power in both. You are collecting in B ( either home node or merchant). You have a merchant to allocate to A.

At what degree of control of B should you steer from A, versus collect in A with the merchant?

Per wiki, having a merchant collect in A will halve your power in A. So steering doubles the trade value you control and you will come ahead with steering as long as you control B more than 50%.

Yet my experience is that usually you make more money collecting in A than steering , unless B power is about 65% or more.

What is the magic % control of B that you need as a rule of thumb to steer rather than collect?

I'd actually suggest it really depends strategically on what you plan. For example, while ideally collecting trade is terrible because it mitigates some of the transfer trade bonuses sometimes you can use collection at choke points - zanzibar, the cape, lubeck and Constantinople are few examples of said choke points. Constantinople is non-obvious because usually its the player running it. But most of the time you secure up to 98% of the trade power.

 

[mackwolfe]

You're not supposed to collect in a node you have only 25% influence are you?

Depends on what you have downstream of it. That is the whole point of my question .

Example: you're playing the trade game in Indian ocean. you control 50% power in Zanzibar and have a merchant collecting there ( so this is power with a collecting merchant) . You just captured a chunk of Malaya and have 25% power there and a merchant to spare. Should he collect n Malacca, or steer to Zanzibar? Per my table, he should collect in Malacca.

This does not take into account the minor bonus ( 5% or so ) you get to steering.

 

[mackwolfe]

while ideally collecting trade is terrible because it mitigates some of the transfer trade bonuses

COllecting trade can be terrible because you lose 1/2 your power in a node when you start collecting there with a merchant. THe loss of the transfer trade bonuses is minor compared to that.

 

[Indigo Blue]

its only minor if you net any part of the power. As the Ottos unless you take genoa or the channel you will never see any of the money that goes around the cape.

 

[Toni Martoni]

Depends on what you have downstream of it. That is the whole point of my question .

Example: you're playing the trade game in Indian ocean. you control 50% power in Zanzibar and have a merchant collecting there ( so this is power with a collecting merchant) . You just captured a chunk of Malaya and have 25% power there and a merchant to spare. Should he collect n Malacca, or steer to Zanzibar? Per my table, he should collect in Malacca.

This does not take into account the minor bonus ( 5% or so ) you get to steering.

There are not common numbers here I guess. You actually have to see where other nations are steering. But the path seems way too long here, to steer from Malacca to Zanzibar if you don't control lands in India

 

[Less2]

Agree . But that is why I asked about a rough rule of thumb. I am pretty sure that you do not want to steer to a node where you only have 25% power , for example. I am pretty sure you should steer to a node where you have 90% power . unless you have 100% upstream .

Having thought about this some more, the % power in A clearly matters a lot . So here is my answer to my own question

POWER IN A       POWER  IN A when COLLECTING       Break Even POWER IN B needed to make steering from A->B profitable
100%             100%                              None - always collect in A if you have 100% power in A
80%              67%                               84% ( 67/80)
60%              42%                               70%
50%              33%                               67%
40%              25%                               63%
20%              11%                               55%
10%              5%                                50%

You've got the right idea, but keep in mind this assumes everyone else is collecting in A. If everyone else is pulling your direction anyway then collecting is always profitable, the lost trade value comes in your direction and you get to double dip by collecting with two merchants. If some other powers are collecting and some are pulling then of course the break even is somewhere in between.

 

[Dominion]

You've got the right idea, but keep in mind this assumes everyone else is collecting in A. If everyone else is pulling your direction anyway then collecting is always profitable, the lost trade value comes in your direction and you get to double dip by collecting with two merchants. If some other powers are collecting and some are pulling then of course the break even is somewhere in between.

Or if there's only a single direction for trade to flow in anyways from the trade node you have in mind.

Or if it's already at max merchants pulling (needs confirmation for 1.19)

Or, or, or

There are many things that make a stale brake even point impossible.

 

[mackwolfe]

You've got the right idea, but keep in mind this assumes everyone else is collecting in A

Good point about double dipping. Didn't think of that. My calculation assumes trade is either collected by others or steered away from me.

 

[brifbates]

Keep in mind, if you have a merchant collecting in any node other than your trade capital you lose the (+10%/merchant steering) trade power bonus in your trade capital. If you have a lot of merchants that can be a pretty significant loss.

 

[sigeena]

Well if you don't go about trying to improve your home node first, you'll not be very competitive in the trade game. The loss in trade power bonus is rather marginal once trade efficiency hits about 50%.

 

[alexti]

There are many more factors than just trade power in B. For example:
- how much TP you lose in B when collecting in A (due to loss of steering merchant bonus) - can be a lot if you have 10+ merchants
- how much trade value you lose in B when collecting in A. The loss of TP in A due to collecting isn't always important. If the holders of majority of TP in A steer to B, your loss of TP in A means little - what you don't collect will just get steered into B. On the other hand, if you are the only major TP holder who steers from A to B, the loss of trade value in B can be large.

 

[FrogCrusher]

Don't forget that with WoN, inland trade node steering is increased by caravan power...