At a crossroads as Duke of Kent

[SacredDatura]

Here's the situation: I'm playing as the de Contevilles, and I have the full Duchies of Kent and Cornwall, plus Mortain on the mainland, and have a triple-county Lancaster count as vassal. The crown authority has been lowered twice by me, and is now at limited CA, and I just forced through gavelkind succession for the Kingdom of England so that future kings will be weaker. The current king (based in Dorset) is also very close (~90%) to losing his throne to an Iberian non-dynasty member, which (I think?) will lower CA down one more notch. I can declare independence by faction, and though the current king gets strong claims on all my land am I correct in assuming that the soon-to-be king will not inherit those claims? I also don't have claims on anywhere myself yet. I can push claims on a couple of courtiers, but even if I win they all get duchies, which I'm assuming means they won't be my vassals.

So, question is, do I stay in the now weak Kingdom of England, or do I declare independence? My vague aim by the end of this game is to get a throne, preferably the English, and whittle the Norman dynasty down to insignificance. Medium-term goals are probably to connect my two duchies to make a contigious powerbase in the south of England. Would that be easier/simpler to do as a powerful autonomous vassal or as an indie? This is probably my most successful/fun game yet, I don't want to screw it up but I don't want to reload a decade either.

 

[tnick0225]

I think it would be a bit simpler as a powerful autonomous vassal. Just because you'll have a King that you could help fight back any foreign invaders. As far as the guy invading I don't think he would gain a strong claim if you get independence first.

What I wonder is there a way you could start a faction to see yourself to the throne? Or is that only a faction/plot for powerful lords in an elective succession Kingdom? Sorry for adding more questions just something I thought about.

But personally I'd try and go about gaining your power base as an autonomous vassal. But that's just my style. When I'm not strong enough to defend against foreigners I like having someone above me, especially if I'm powerful enough to boss that someone around on occasion, which sounds to me that your strong enough to slap him around a wee bit.

 

[SacredDatura]

That was my thinking too, was leaning towards continued vassalage, but - I remember what I forgot to put in the first post.

One thing that worries me about staying a vassal is if the liege gets his act together in the future so that he can continue with raising CA to a point where I'm not able to do anything at all, which is what happened in England in previous games. This game right from the start I made sure to be a disloyal vassal and mess with the king as much as possible (supporting royal pretenders with a small demesne and terrible traits), but so far it's only been successful when the king is off crusading in the Holy Land, and the last time I only barely won because I was incredibly lucky and got that event that gave you a bunch of free troops. I've not had experience playing as a vassal powerful enough to single-handedly challenge the king. Any tips on doing it 'correctly'?

I didn't see a faction option for installing myself as king, I think you'd have to have a claim first?

 

[Sopot]

I didn't see a faction option for installing myself as king, I think you'd have to have a claim first?

I would imagine you'd be able to use the plot 'fabricate claim on England', that will give you a strong claim on the Kingdom and you can then use the faction mechanism to take control.

 

[CurtisManning]

You should fabricate/press claims on other counties/duchies of your Kingdom, to add them into your demesne to increase your strength in comparison to the King's. Then maybe instead of Gavelkind you should install Elective Succession, because then you could create a faction to see you on the throne.

 

[Fawr]

I've been in a similar situation before. I think the benefits of staying inside the kingdom outweight the disadvantages. Once you are outside the kingdom its much harder to take more land away from other English nobles because as an independent attacking someone in England you have to fight the king for every province!