Assistance as Germany

[Victor1234]

Played my first game of HOI,so excuse me if this is a bit "noobish",I'm playing regular HOI,with a patch.(1.6 or was it 1.06)

So,it's late 1940,I've got 6 divisions of mechanized panzergrenadiers(2 stacks of 3 each).....15 divisions of Pz.IV's(9 under Rommel,and then 2 other stacks of 3 divisions each),the rest of the Wermacht consists of about 50-60 infantry,2 calvary divisions,3 mountain divisions,3 paratroop divisions,and about 6 motorized infantry units.

I've done everything according to plan(neglected the navy,main focus on land forces),Poland fell easily(I didn't even use my airforce at all...).I won the Spanish Civil War for the Nationalists,gotten the extra territory from Denmark,annexed Austria and the Czech's(chose to split Slovakia with Hungary....).I invaded/took over the Netherlands,and Belgium,and Luxembourg also gave in to my territorial demands,and got annexed to me....so far,I've captured 5-6 French territories,and have 3 provinces bordering Paris.My problem though,is that the French have Canadian/UK/South African/Belgian expeditionary forces,and their own army.

So my problem is thus:
I have enough firepower(that 9 stack of Pz.IV's under Rommel)to take Paris,but then I don't have enough units left to hold the line,and Rommel's advance into Paris turns into a disaster.Trying to push up the coast(with one of the 3 Pz.IV stacks)also ends in failure,the Allies have about 120 divisions in France,facing my 40 or so divisions(these contain 2 large 12 infantry stacks,all my armour,motorized,and mechanized units)All the rest of my units are holding coastal territories throughout Germany(the Allies like to invade Germany and the Netherlands from the sea.....).

So,anyways,I'm stuck,and time is running low,what to do,to quickly restore the situation before the Ruskies come knocking on my door......

Also,I have been mainly neglecting my airforce,I have a 12 unit stack(4 fighters,8 various bombers)that are Spanish Civil War veterans....and that's it.I haven't found much use for the airforce in the game,and didn't use any airforce units during my Poland invasion.

 

[unmerged(29350)]

My recommendation would be to try to isolate pockets of enemy forces then drive inwards to destroy them - in this manner the enemy divisions are actually destroyed rather than retreating to be reinforced and to fight another day. This has the additional benefit of having their troops cut-off from suply - so they start to fester nicely after a while and you should find it rather easier to destroy them. [Note this sounds easier than in practice and if you are already struggling to hold an extended line then you should try to look for areas where you can do this without having to hold too many more territories (you don't want them to break out)] you will find plenty of advice on how to do this from other players and threads already in this forum - some are obviously far more advanced than others but the good ol' armoured spearhead with some troops running to catch up usually works quite well.

Also, you will find that you do not normally need huge armies to hold off the French and other european Allies. A few units can usually be sufficient to dissuade them from attacking and the longer the front gets - the more extended they get too!

A few planes somewhere nearby your weaker defences can also prove instrumental in helping them to hold the line - I think you start with about 9 bombers as Germany(?) - these can rip through the enemy org and render an assault rather tootheless, particularly if they are already fighting you on the ground - and don't stop your planes from attacking them as they retreat - that is the best bit :rofl:

HTH

Alexx

 

[unmerged(1047)]

It sounds like you're in a situation where you can't freely maneuver. As Germany, speed is your friend. Get yourself another few stacks of motorized infantry - 5 or 6 stacks of 4 divisions each is my usual technique. Use these to formyour actual line, hold the front, while using your tanks to punch through. Tanks to attack, motorized to hold. (Foot infantry is good only for long term defense or slow offensives... as such, use them as garrisons, or in rough terrain, only.)

Following that, I'd reorganize your tanks into more equal stacks... a 6 and a 9 perhaps, or three 5's. Use Rommel, Guderian, von Kleist, Hoth, or other leaders with multiple skills.

Use your bombers to support the attack units... have them hit the province repeatedly (use repeat function) starting about 3 days before the tanks arrive. This will reduce the enemy's morale and lead to quicker battles with lower casulaties for you - which is crucial because Germany usually ends up with a manpower shortage about a year after engaging the Eastern Front.

 

[Victor1234]

Hmmm,this sounds like good advice,but how do I win quickly,if I have to wait 100-something days for the stacks of motorized inf. to be completed?

Also,I think that's why I never found tactical bombing too effective.In the tutorial,it suggested that you start tactical bombing an hour or two before the main attack comes.I also find that even with an hour or two's tactical bombing,my air units are down to 3/4 strength.....I imagine they'll get wiped out in 3 days of bombing...

 

[unmerged(36021)]

Start Bomber 2-3 days before depending on the amount of bombers available and the size of the stack in the selected province. Usually this will mean with the French the battle will be over in a few hours.

hope this helps with tactical bombing.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

It sounds to me like the only option - short of building more troops - is to spread thinner on your front lines by breaking up those 2 12 infantry stacks into 4 6's. Place one in each front line province (as far as you can afford) and theat should free up your mobile (motor, mech, panzer) units to be used for attacking. This is normally the role I would use the motorized for, but if you have surplus foot infantry already built, use that. (I usually at this stage have 12 stacks of around 4-5 infantry divisions; 1 each garrisoning Hamburg and Berlin, 6 along the Soviet border, and 4 on the German provinces bordering the Maginot Line, and I do not build more until after conquering France.)

Also, you can try mixing mech and panzer units; sometimes that has a good effect, particularly against an infantry-heavy enemy like the French usually are.

And when it can be avoided, don't attack across rivers; there are penalties for that. Instead, thrust south between Paris and the Maginot Line provinces, taking that area (it's rich in resources too, BTW), and once you reach Dijon, swing west and drive across Auxerre and into Orleans (garrisoning each province behind as you go.) Then take Caen, and then start pushing the French forces back inside this pocket, until they're stuck in Paris and/or Troyes. Then attack the surrounded troops and destroy them.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

In your current game break up Rommel's group into three parts. BTW Rommel is not your best Pz commander in the game: Von Manstein is (Pz off trickster while Rommel is Pz trickster logistics). Thin out your defenses as others have suggested.

Then look for opportunites to attack from several directions at once. Corps of just three Pz can sometimes beat 12+ French inf and six from two directions with great leaders are awesome. I also attack a lot with big plain inf stacks led by Von Bock et al whether in France or in Russia. You need inf to attack effectively in forests or hills against large sized French inf stacks. Let your Pz attack elsewhere while your inf fights in forests and hills.

NEXT GAME PLAY HISTORICALLY:

Historically 136 German divisions were in the west of which just 10 were Pz div along with four motor inf. div Only ten percent of the German divisions were mobile yet the Germans succeeded with blitzkrieg.

Your order of battle plan relied too much on making mobile divisions when plain inf div would more than suffice. You need to build some plain inf div to hold territory while your armored forces fight and advance.

I'm currently playing 1.06c on very hard/furious AI settings and I easily got Vichy France with 12 pz div and 8 motor inf div backed up by lots of plain inf div. The twelve Pz were six MG and six IL20. The airforce was 12 basic tac bombers though they did get smashed once by a size 10 French fighter stack.

To get enough inf to hold territory and to surround areas I built six inf on a continuous basis until the Austrian Anschluss. That's 48 plain inf div. Then I added a few more before switching to mobile div builds and researching doctrines after the Munich crisis.

For Barbarossa I had 21 Pz div and 12 motor inf. Pz div were 3 MG and then six each IL20 AL30 BM40 with some IM50 being built just as Barbarossa started. Along with lots of plain inf I am easily pushing back the Red Army while creating some fairly good pockets. Historically Germany had 19 Pz and 14 motor inf along with about 115 leg inf div. They did not have an overwhelming number of mobile div yet they did very well and so can you.

Just plain historically the next time and build some plain inf. You don't need the latest and greatest armored forces to win (though that helps). But you do need numbers to hold territory and finish off pockets.

 

[unmerged(35467)]

I can't even imagine fighting without the tactical bombers!

Also, I found that you need fighters on intercept against Brit/USA as they start bombing you the moment they can. Two fighters on INT in Berlin, 2 fighters near the French border should cover the northern territories.

And, don't forget about your paratroopers. Could be very useful by dropping them off deep in enemy territory while you are driving up to prevent them from properly retreating.

You sound like you are in a good position. If you can, assume control of Spain and send him north. In my first game as Germany, I did that, and even though his troops aren't that great, they have numbers (at least in mine they did) and distracted the French.

Granted, I'm a newbie, but that all seemed to work for me in the past!

Joe

 

[unmerged(29350)]

I broadly agree with John Heidle here. Although I do not know what the historic set-up was you certainly do not need huge numbers of Panzers to invade France, I usually have around 12-18 Panzers (specifically improved Medium 70mm) which I use to spearhead my invasion through Belgium, cutting off as many forces (particularly fleeing Belgian units) in Lille and destroying them there.

My main difference would be that I seem to have more infantry than John (note - as soon as you geet to 1937 - change to man of the people leader for MP increase - better dissent value to) and these are usually in groups of 3 for flexibility with a few larger stacks. Tanks push around North and West coast, infantry filling in behind while infantry head South for the mountains, cutting off the Maginot as they go. No fancy military access required - simply DOW Belgium and go for it

Keeping the tanks moving stops the French from re-organising their troops and as you are winning each engagement you are in a better position than the french in the next (do not stop to reinforce your tanks divisions - it should not be necessary). When you add the tac bombers/stukas I feel you have exactly the essence of blitzkrieg Hitler was very concerned that his tanks were getting too far ahead of the infantry - he even ordered Guardin (sp?) to stop on a number of occasions (most of which were ignored!) prior to Dunkirk.

In my opinion, if you do not start to feel uncomfortable about how far ahead of your infantry your tanks are getting - you aint doing it right!

 

[unmerged(1047)]

Note that the real strategic failure of France was relying on three facts:
a) The Germans would not violate the neutrality of Belgium.
b) The Germans would not attack through the Maginot Line.
Both of those, actually, *were* somewhat justified by 1940 events. While the Germans did DOW Belgium and go through, the Belgians did put up quite a fight.
The thing that really got France was C.
c) The French generals assumed that the Ardennes Forest (Chaumont province in-game) was virtually impassable to modern military forces in any significant numbers, and had garrisoned this area very lghtly (and with depleted units at that, many of them reservists who were veterans of WWI). When the Germans sent a major armored/motorized thrust through this sector, and they were sighted south of the forest (crumpling the reservists) the French high command believed the reports to be in error at first...

Interestingly, too, one of the first theorists of high=speed armored warfare - what later became known as blitzkrieg - was Charles de Gaulle. At the time of the German invasion of France, I believe he was commanding an armored unit on training maneuvers west of Paris.

 

[Victor1234]

Well,my main problem is that I didn't build enough regular infantry.....I focused too much on research.Basically,my panzers outrun my infantry all the time,and have to slow down for the infantry to catch up(otherwise those Frenchies take the undefended province,cutting my tanks off from their line of supply)

Now,my failure has been to actually pocket/destroy enemy units.I just take the territory that I'm attacking,and leave the French to retreat/reform/fight another day.Unfortunately,during one of these drives,my panzers got slaughtered(down to 50% strength),and had to stop to reinforce,which meant the French could do the same.

 

[unmerged(33615)]

small, but maybe helpful suggestion: If you have any divisions left in the east (e.g. "defending" the eastern border to SU) retreat them completely and drive them to the western front to help you out of your actual problems. You dont need one single division in the east! SU will DOW you normally mid 42 earliest (you accept molotov-ribbentrop-pact historical outcome, did you??) no matter if you have 5 or 0 divs in the east. Only >50 divs will delay SU DoW.

PS: maybe you then enough troops to do a "small kind" of exploit: Sorround Paris (do not attack) and just hold your positions. After a few weeks (manginot will last longer) all french divs are at org 0 and can easily mopped up.

 

[Lord Ederon]

PS: maybe you then enough troops to do a "small kind" of exploit: Sorround Paris (do not attack) and just hold your positions. After a few weeks (manginot will last longer) all french divs are at org 0 and can easily mopped up.

I don't think this would work, since French seem to move their capital when threatened. I don't know exact trigger though...

 

[unmerged(29350)]

Yea, this definitely happens when you trap off the French capital. Quite often it has the same effect though as the capital is regularly moved to North Africa where they seem to have difficulty shipping supplies from - and of course, depending on your position on the continent can have just as much effect anyway.

If you are really that desparate for troops, perhaps Militia could fill the void - very cheapo and rapid to build and you would not be relying on them alone to fill the gaps - team them up with some regular infantry and keep your regular forces doing the attacking. You can then reclaim the manpower by disbanding once the current crisis is over. Obviously better to have planned and built better troops to start with, and militia seems to go against the grain as Germany, but this could get you over the current sticky point.

 

[Lortto]

When I attack France in single-player, I leave the Russian border virtually undefended, perhaps just one or two division per province. That leaves me with plenty of troops to goosestep over France.

I also tend to use smaller panzer-stacks. Usually stacks of 3,4 or 5 since they are very capable of beating much larger groups of infantry.