Assign kingdom crusade (jihad/great holy war) priority.

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

Lo folks I was working on a mod where I give every kingdom in the game a crusade target weight and found myself intrigued with the task of trying to figure out which order they should be in, and then thought hey this is someting the forums could be amused by.
So if you were to make a priorities list for crusades (or johads or great holy wars for specific other religons if you prefer) which order would you list them in? Why?

This is as far as I've gotten myself thus far.

k_italy
k_thracia
k_byzantium
k_macedon
k_aquitaine
k_nicaea
k_france
k_lotharingia
k_bavaria
k_germany
k_england
k_anatolia
k_sicily/k_naples
k_asturias
k_aragon
k_spanish_galicia
k_croatia
k_castille
k_leon
k_portugal
k_frisia
k_bohemia/k_moravia
k_saxony
k_scotland
k_ireland
k_poland
k_israel/k_jerusalem
k_syria
k_egypt
k_africa
k_andalusia
k_serbia
k_dacia
k_bulgaria
k_brittany
k_denmark
k_pomerania
k_hungary
k_gotaland
k_sweden
k_wales
k_navarra
k_norway
k_esthonia
k_finland
k_lithuania
k_mesopotamia
k_georgia
k_taurica
k_ruthenia
k_armenia
k_alania
k_persia
k_rus
k_sapmi
k_perm
k_volga_bulgaria
k_baluchistan
k_sindh
k_rajputana
k_gujarat
k_khiva
k_delhi
k_khotan
k_malwa
k_punjab
k_arabia
k_mauretania
k_abyssinia
k_kosala
k_maharastra
k_cumania
k_turkestan
k_tamilakam
k_lanka
k_afghanistan
k_karnata
k_nubia
k_andhra
k_telingana
k_orissa
k_bengal
k_bihar
k_kamarupa
k_gondwana
k_mali

sorry for the tags, also some are from mods I think most of them are obvious where the kingdom is.

Thure · Jul 24, 2016

Anatolia should have a lower Crusade Chance than Jerusalem. WAY lower.

You know... Anatolia was mostly ruled by Turks during the game timeline. This would mean the Crusaders would fight for Anatolia instead of Jerusalem mostly.

Rascar Capac · Jul 24, 2016

I would put this section

Code:

k_israel/k_jerusalem
k_syria
k_egypt
k_africa
k_andalusia

a bit higher, between, say, k_portugal and k_frisia. Mainly because those areas have some significance in early christian history.

I'm also of the opinion that Saxony should definitely have lower crusade weight than Jerusalem, and christianisation of Northern Europe should mainly happen via missionaries and local holy wars, not with armies amassed for or by il papa.

Just my tired two cents.

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

Thure said:
Anatolia should have a lower Crusade Chance than Jerusalem. WAY lower.

You know... Anatolia was mostly ruled by Turks during the game timeline. This would mean the Crusaders would fight for Anatolia instead of Jerusalem mostly.

True I just based it on the fact that the first crusade was technically targeted at atnatolia. But yeah you're right it would screw up game play. Between africa and andalusia perhaps?

Rascar Capac said:
I would put this section

Code:

k_israel/k_jerusalem k_syria k_egypt k_africa k_andalusia

a bit higher, between, say, k_portugal and k_frisia. Mainly because those areas have some significance in early christian history.

I'm also of the opinion that Saxony should definitely have lower crusade weight than Jerusalem, and christianisation of Northern Europe should mainly happen via missionaries and local holy wars, not with armies amassed for or by il papa.

Just my tired two cents.

Well saxony is the opposite of what I did above, gameplay trumping historicity, saxony is except in 769 already christian so won't fire anyway.

_Perun_ · Jul 24, 2016

Yes, crusades for Jerusalem were also a little bit more common than those for Poland or Ireland.

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

_Perun_ said:
Yes, crusades for Jerusalem were also a little bit more common than those for Poland or Ireland.

Again Poland generally turn catholic on it's own and when the crusades fire the viking age is generally over and thus ireland is also christian. I prioritized Catholicism defending itself before going on conquest sprees in the holy land.

And we wouldn't know that crusades would have been called in a reality where catholicism had lost saxony poland and/or ireland.

_Perun_ · Jul 24, 2016

I get your point. There were some lands defending of which was crucial for Christians but let us do not forget that the whole idea for crusades was to reconquer the holy lands not just some rocks and forest were some freshly converted Christians happened to live. That was politics and the Pope was an important player in it, not a defender of the poor and needing.

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

_Perun_ said:
I get your point. There were some lands defending of which was crucial for Christians but let us do not forget that the whole idea for crusades was to reconquer the holy lands not just some rocks and forest were some freshly converted Christians happened to live. That was politics and the Pope was an important player in it, not a defender of the poor and needing.

true which is why I placed remote and poor areas lower than their geography would suggest norway, wales and brittany are examples of this. Places where a heathen warlord could potentially sit undisturbed for a long time because no one would bother with trying to dig them out.
But you're right ireland and scotland are rather poor to they could drop a few positions.

k_italy
k_thracia
k_byzantium
k_macedon
k_aquitaine
k_nicaea
k_france
k_lotharingia
k_bavaria
k_germany
k_england
k_sicily/k_naples
k_asturias
k_aragon
k_spanish_galicia
k_croatia
k_castille
k_leon
k_portugal
k_israel/k_jerusalem
k_syria
k_egypt
k_africa
k_anatolia
k_frisia
k_bohemia/k_moravia
k_saxony
k_scotland
k_ireland
k_poland
k_andalusia
k_serbia
k_dacia
k_bulgaria
k_brittany
k_denmark
k_pomerania
k_hungary
k_gotaland
k_sweden
k_wales
k_navarra
k_norway
k_esthonia
k_finland
k_lithuania
k_mesopotamia
k_georgia
k_taurica
k_ruthenia
k_armenia
k_alania
k_persia
k_rus
k_sapmi
k_perm
k_volga_bulgaria
k_baluchistan
k_sindh
k_rajputana
k_gujarat
k_khiva
k_delhi
k_khotan
k_malwa
k_punjab
k_arabia
k_mauretania
k_abyssinia
k_kosala
k_maharastra
k_cumania
k_turkestan
k_tamilakam
k_lanka
k_afghanistan
k_karnata
k_nubia
k_andhra
k_telingana
k_orissa
k_bengal
k_bihar
k_kamarupa
k_gondwana
k_mali

Hmm the anatolia one is still a problem, it is still higher than crusades that actually happened (like the northern crusades)

Also I'm bumping the crusade target weight by 110 for each one up, but I'm not sure that is enough, Perhaps I shouldn't have a linear progression at all but some sort of exponential one?

_Perun_ · Jul 24, 2016

Take a look at the original crusade target weight table. In my opinion it makes much sense - only those areas were Christians were living for few centuries preceding the Charlie start date have higher weight than Jerusalem. Sicily and Hungary, places on the border of religious turmoil has the same weight.
I think that crusades weight represents not the global Christian need to defend/conquer a given area but rather a political significance for the Pope.

Edit: Nevertheless, you have a nice idea, sir. If you have only time and enthusiasm to finish the project, go for it. Catholics target weights are the most tricky here. When it comes to pagans, I believe the best way to set crusades weights is considering the distance from their original kingdom(s). For example, Romuva's weights ends wih Bohemia and Germany with the value of 50. I would suggest give the weight of 49 to Norway, Saxony, Bavaria, Pannonia and Wallachia, 48 to Frisia, Lotharingia, Burgundy, Italy, Criatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, etc. And the same with the eastern kingdoms. That should not take a lot of time.

I would rather avoid making a strict hierarchy and leave some element of surpriiiiise!

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

_Perun_ said:
Take a look at the original crusade target weight table. In my opinion it makes much sense - only those areas were Christians were living for few centuries preceding the Charlie start date have higher weight than Jerusalem. Sicily and Hungary, places on the border of religious turmoil has the same weight.
I think that crusades weight represents not the global Christian need to defend/conquer a given area but rather a political significance for the Pope.

Well the thing is the crusade weight should change with time to be realistic, having poland with a high crusade weight in 769 is nonsense but in 1453 Poland being taken over by heretics or pagans would have been a massive concern for the pope.
Many of the crusades against the holy land were because the rulers of europe were overconfident after the sucess of the first one, but the success of later crusades were much more mixed.

Rascar Capac · Jul 24, 2016

TheDungen said:
Well saxony is the opposite of what I did above, gameplay trumping historicity, saxony is except in 769 already christian so won't fire anyway.

Mmh. As one of those who stubbornly crush thirteenth crusade for Saxony while Umayyads carve Aquitaine to bits undisturbed, my view on the matter is bit skewed. But whatever.

That's also why I completely agree with high weight you gave Aquitaine.

_Perun_ · Jul 24, 2016

TheDungen said:
Well the thing is the crusade weight should change with time to be realistic, having poland with a high crusade weight in 769 is nonsense but in 1453 Poland being taken over by heretics or pagans would have been a massive concern for the pope.
Many of the crusades against the holy land were because the rulers of europe were overconfident after the sucess of the first one, but the success of later crusades were much more mixed.

And in 2016 Poland should have one of the highest crusade weight

You are right here. Just take into consideration that pagan nations were not seen as much a threat to Christian realms as Muslims. There were only Teutons who tried to crusade against them and that was in the late Middle Ages. If you are not up to to make separate tables for each start, I would rather suggest on the threat that Muslims generated (good idea with Aquitane).

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

Rascar Capac said:
Mmh. As one of those who stubbornly crush thirteenth crusade for Saxony while Umayyads carve Aquitaine to bits undisturbed, my view on the matter is bit skewed. But whatever.

That's also why I completely agree with high weight you gave Aquitaine.

Well all in all it's my intention that my progression is going to be smoother leading to less crusades being called for the same target twice in a row, even my highest gap is roughly 200 weight, while in the unmodded game I think the gap between france and italy is something like 5000.

_Perun_ said:
And in 2016 Poland should have one of the highest crusade weight
You are right here. Just take into consideration that pagan nations were not seen as much a threat to Christian realms as Muslims. There were only Teutons who tried to crusade against them and that was in the late Middle Ages. If you are not up to to make separate tables for each start, I would rather suggest on the threat that Muslims generated (good idea with Aquitane).

Well the scandianvian kings crusaded in the baltic during the second and third crusades if memory serves me right, but that's another thing that the game cannot model, that the same crusade may have several targets. The second crusade was launched for edessa (right? or was it aleppo?) but ended up making most of it's gains in the wends and iberia.

It'd be really nice with some feedback on the items further down the list, the rest of the middleeast, persia, africa, the steppes and india.

Edit: With weights, x^2 (where x is the position from the bottom) I think the progression may be a little to steep near the top of the list, I may redo it with (x/2)^2 or something later.

k_italy 7396
k_thracia 7225
k_byzantium 7056
k_macedon 6889
k_aquitaine 6724
k_nicaea 6561
k_france 6400
k_lotharingia 6241
k_bavaria 6084
k_germany 5929
k_england 5776
k_sicily/k_naples 5625
k_asturias 5476
k_aragon 5329
k_spanish_galicia 5184
k_croatia 5041
k_castille 4900
k_leon 4761
k_portugal 4624
k_israel/k_jerusalem 4489
k_syria 4356
k_egypt 4225
k_africa 4096
k_anatolia 3969
k_frisia 3844
k_bohemia/k_moravia 3721
k_saxony 3600
k_scotland 3481
k_ireland 3364
k_poland 3249
k_andalusia 3136
k_serbia 3025
k_dacia 2916
k_bulgaria 2809
k_brittany 2704
k_denmark 2601
k_pomerania 2500
k_hungary 2401
k_gotaland 2304
k_sweden 2209
k_wales 2116
k_navarra 2025
k_norway 1936
k_esthonia 1849
k_finland 1764
k_lithuania 1681
k_mesopotamia 1600
k_georgia 1521
k_taurica 1444
k_ruthenia 1369
k_armenia 1296
k_alania 1225
k_persia 1156
k_rus 1089
k_sapmi 1024
k_perm 961
k_volga_bulgaria 900
k_baluchistan 841
k_sindh 784
k_rajputana 729
k_gujarat 676
k_khiva 625
k_delhi 575
k_khotan 529
k_malwa 484
k_punjab 441
k_arabia 400
k_mauretania 361
k_abyssinia 324
k_kosala 289
k_maharastra 256
k_cumania 225
k_turkestan 196
k_tamilakam 169
k_lanka 144
k_afghanistan 121
k_karnata 100
k_nubia 81
k_andhra 64
k_telingana 49
k_orissa 36
k_bengal 25
k_bihar 16
k_kamarupa 9
k_gondwana 4
k_mali 1

Silversweeeper · Jul 24, 2016

Translating what I already have in my own mod (which reworks the de jure kingdoms to some extent) to vanilla kingdoms:
Italy - seat of the Pope, should be reclaimed at all cost
Sicily - close to Rome
Croatia, Bavaria, Germany, Burgundy - traditionally Christian land (aside from Croatia early on), close to Rome
Aquitaine, France, (Serbia) - traditionally Christian land (Serbia smaller and likely has lower prio)
Lotharingia, Frisia, Aragon, Navarra, (western) Greece - traditionally Christian land (western Greece being everything not part of Asia Minor or Cyprus, if the kingdom was split)
Castile, England, Brittany - traditionally Christian land (might want to move them down to the same prio as Jerusalem)
(Saxony), Bohemia, ((eastern) Greece), Asturias, (Hungary), (Wales) - traditionally Christian land or just adjacent (might want to move them down to same as Jerusalem or just below)
Jerusalem, Scotland, Pomerania, Hungary, Galicia, Ireland, Bulgaria, Denmark - Jerusalem is obvious, the rest are either traditionally Christian or important border regions
Portugal, Andalusia, Anatolia, Africa, Egypt, Syria, Wallachia, Sweden, Poland - logical expansion next to earlier conquests, in particular to protect Jerusalem and Greece a bit more (and Rome, in the case of Africa)
Georgia, Armenia, Mesopotamia, Egypt, Arabia, Mauretania, Finland, Norway, Lithuania, Nubia - some traditional Christian areas, some logical continuation
Ruthenia, Abyssinia, Persia, Alania, Taurica, Rus - mostly logical expansion, Rus, Ruthenia, and Abyssinia are Christian in some starts
Baluchistan, Afghanistan, Khiva, ((western) Perm), Volga Bulgaria - logical expansion (western Perm being the area north of Rus and Volga Bulgaria)
Sindh, Punjab, ((western) Cumania) - logical expansion (western Cumania being south of Volga Bulgaria/north of Caspian Sea), also very good to go into India due to possibly wanting to top Alexander the Great (or just seizing important land for trade etc.)
Rajputana, Delhi, Turkestan - logical expansion, following in Alexander's footsteps and securing Khiva a bit more
Khotan, Gujarat, Malwa, Kosala - seizing the Silk Road, continuing into India adjacent to earlier conquests
Maharastra, Gondwana, Bihar, (eastern) Cumania - more India, taking some logical steppe land (though this might be lower prio than India)
Bengal, Orissa, (eastern) Perm, Karnata, Telingana, Andhra, Tamilakam - most of the rest of India, remnants of Perm (though Perm likely is less important
Mongolia, Kamarupa, Lanka, (Mali) - leftover areas (Mali fairly low due to being a dead end; if it was richer it should probably be up near Sindh)

Some additional weighting within the groups could include:
- Presence of Christians in the relevant kingdom (especially Catholic/Fraticelli)
- Presence of holy sites/pentarchy seats/big, important cities (Paris, London, Cairo, Damascus, etc.)
- Size of target/danger of target realm (it is better to weaken a massive Persia holding Persia, Mesopotamia, Arabia, Baluchistan, and most of India when the full might of Christendom is available than targeting an Egypt that can be holy warred more easily)
- Adjacency to already held land (if England is split between two Norse realms, target the southern part first)
- Feudal/republic/theocracy land > tribal land > nomadic land
- Position of the target ruler on Christians (someone with Sympathy for Christianity should probably be crusaded after a Zealous ruler of another faith, all other things being equal)

I could probably write down my priority lists for other faiths as well at some point, but they mainly blob out into historically relevant land (e.g the old caliphate for Muslims) from the most logical starting point (Arabia/Mecca for Muslims, Persia/Esfahan for Zoroastrians, Israel/Jerusalem for Jewish rulers, etc.) and then spread beyond towards reasonable targets (with some guesswork as to how they would spread further afield rather than just expanding at the same rate in all directions all the time), with the most different one being the Norse as I have set them up to be willing to attack overseas to some extent so that they e.g. target Scotland and England fairly early on and can leap from Arabia directly to western India (if they manage to get that far).

Of course, I chose to remove the crusade weights due to the AI sometimes picking less highly rated targets (unsure what the exact circumstances are for that) and set the AI to call crusades via a decision that goes through all kingdoms in order and then fires a crusade against a ruler when it finds a possible target (e.g. if there is a Muslim realm in Aquitaine, the Pope will likely fire a cruade there, though he might go after Serbia if it is pagan or France if it is full of heretics, but he won't go for Lotharingia until the higher priority targets have been taken) and set its willingness to use the CB normally to zero, so my approach to the problem of silly target choices is a bit different.

Caspoi · Jul 24, 2016

If you ask me the Nordic crusades (like the ones that Sweden participated in against Finland) would probably be standard holy wars in terms of game mechanics as it was mostly kings fighting their personal crusades without a great call to arms from the pope.

TheDungen · Jul 24, 2016

Caspoi said:
If you ask me the Nordic crusades (like the ones that Sweden participated in against Finland) would probably be standard holy wars in terms of game mechanics as it was mostly kings fighting their personal crusades without a great call to arms from the pope.

Well the wendish crusade was a part of the second crusade. The pope decreed that any struggle against infidels no matter where they were were acceptable contributions to the crusades. That said In gameplay yes that would probably be the case, after all the kingdoms in the wends in the game are rather large and a lot more than the crusaders ever managed to take.

Fishman786 · Jul 24, 2016

I think Jerusalem should always have a higher weight than anything else except the Christian core regions of France, Constantinople and Italy. Jerusalem was the inspiration behind the whole movement, it's the holy city at the centre of Christian apocalyptic hopes and expectations. An excursion against, say, Yorkshire, isn't going to have the same effect.

Catholic, Fraticeli:
1. Italy (seat of the Pope)
2. France, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Bavaria, Lotharingia (very near to Italy and a long Christian history with a lot of Holy sites)
3. Greece (to reclaim Constantinople)
4. Jerusalem/Israel (The Holy Land)
5. England, Frisia, Hungary, Germany/Saxony, Norway, Sweden, Denmark (to mop up remaining heathen realms threatening western Europe)
6. Egypt, Syria, Africa, Anatolia, Poland, Pomerania, Bohemia, Finland, Lithuania, Sicily (Historical crusade targets)
7. Galicia (for Santiago de Compostela)
8. Navarra, Aragon, Asturias, Leon and Castille (once the middle east is taken, crusading can commence in Iberia)
9. Andalusia, Mauritania, Portugal
10. Ireland, Wales, Scotland and Brittany
11. Mesopotamia and Arabia (to finish off the Saracens)
11. Rus, Ruthenia, Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia, Wallachia, Georgia and Armenia (filling in remaining gaps)
12. Alania, Cumania, Volga Bulgaria, Taurica and Nubia (hypothetical crusades)
13. Persia, Abyssinia
14. Afghanistan, Balauchistan, Khiva and Turkestan (consolidating Persia)
15. Tamilakam ('rescuing' the south Indian Christians)
16. Punjab, Sindh, Gujarat, Karnata, Maharastra, Andhra, Lanka (general offensive into India)
17. Delhi, Rajputana, Malwa
18. Kosala
19. Bihar
20. Bengal
21. Orissa, Kamarupa, Gondwana, Telingana (ridiculous jungle crusades)
22. Mali, Khotan, Mongolia (ridiculous steppe crusades)
23. Perm (THE GREAT ICE CRUSADE!!!)

I've started the Iberian crusades later, because historically the Reconquista was seen as something separate and Spanish Catholics were supposed to focus on that rather than running off to the holy land. Gameplay-wise it solves the problem of the whole Catholic world going back and forth trying to rescue little Spanish principalities instead of crusading in the east like they're supposed to. It would also be a good idea to get rid of the 'Germany not controlled' requirement since Germany is now lower down the pecking order than Jerusalem.

Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Kharijite, Hurufi:
1. Arabia (Holy Land of Islam)
2. Mesopotamia (heartland of the middle east)
3. Egypt, Syria (to remove any crusaders from the environs of Jerusalem)
4. Jerusalem/Israel
5. Armenia, Africa, Persia (securing the borders of Islam)
6. Anatolia
7. Greece (the conquest of Constantinople)
8. Sicily, Serbia, Bulgaria, Taurica, Georgia (Historic targets of Ottoman expansion)
9. Mauritania, Andalusia (conquering Constantinople has a higher priority than securing Spain)
10. Aquitaine (briefly Umayyad territory)
11. Burgundy (historic Umayyad influence, encircling Italy)
12. Italy (the conquest of Rome)
13. Portugal, Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Castille, Navarra, Aragon, Bavaria, Croatia (mopping up)
14. France
15. Lotharingia, England (the last remaining major kingdoms within the old Roman borders)
16. Bohemia, Hungary, Wallachia, Alania (consolidating the northern frontier)
17. Germany/Saxony
18. Brittany, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Frisia, Denmark (mopping up again)
19. Mali, Nubia
20. Khiva, Afghanistan, Balauchistan (turning to the east now that Christendom is mostly or entirely conquered)
21. Sindh, Punjab, Turkestan, Abyssinia
22. Khotan, Rajputana, Gujarat, Delhi
23. Malwa, Kosala, Cumania
24. Bihar, Mongolia, Volga Bulgaria
25. Bengal, Gondwana, Maharastra
26. Karnata, Tamilakam, Lanka
27. Andhra, Telingana, Orissa, Kamarupa (finishing off India)
28. Norway, Sweden, Poland, Pomerania, Lithuania, Finland (finishing off pagan Europe)
29. Perm (Impossible to do Ramadan up here!)

I've given Constantinople and the war against the Romans a higher priority than Andalusia, since conquering Rum plays a much more important role in Islamic eschatology and ultimately in history the loss of Al-Andalus didn't slow the Ottomans from invading eastern Europe, plus if the Christians aren't crusading in Iberia there's less pressure there anyway. The Muslim goals are more oriented around fighting the Christians than expansion against pagans and other heathens, but once Christendom is beaten the jihads turn to the east.

Zoroastrians:
1. Persia (Heartland of the Achaemenid Empire)
2. Khiva, Afghanistan, Balauchistan (regions with large Zoroastrian populations and historic connections to Persia)
3. Mesopotamia (Heartland of the Sassanid Empire)
4. Syria, Armenia, Punjab, Sindh (Achaemenid satrapies)
5. Jerusalem/Israel (Achaemenid satrapy)
6. Egypt (Achaemenid satrapy)
7. Anatolia (Achaemenid satrapy)
8. Arabia (partially conquered by the Sassanids)
9. Greece (invaded by the Achaemenids and Sassanids)
10. Africa, Nubia (invasion targets for Cambyses)
11. Georgia, Bulgaria, Serbia
12. Abyssinia, Sicily, Mauritania, Croatia, Hungary, Wallachia, Taurica, Alania, Turkestan, Delhi, Rajputana, Gujarat, Tamilakam (just logical expansion targets now)
13. Andalusia, Bavaria, Cumania, Khotan, Kosala, Karnata, Maharastra, Malwa, Andhra, Lanka
14. Italy (Major obstacle)
15. Mali, Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Castille, Asturias, Navarra, Aragon, Aquitaine, Burgundy, Bohemia, Ruthenia, Volga Bulgaria, Mongolia, Bihar
16. France (Major obstacle)
17. Lotharingia (Lotharingia without France looks ugly)
18. Germany/Saxony
19. England (Last major Catholic kingdom)
20. Brittany, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Frisia, Denmark, Pomerania, Poland, Rus, Bengal
21. Norway, Sweden, Finland, Lithuania, Telingana, Gondwana, Kamarupa, Orissa
21. Perm

The Zoroastrians are more 'defensive' and land-oriented than the Muslims and Christians, so they mainly get Great Holy Wars that help them rebuild Persia and secure its borders.

Yazidi:
1. Mesopotamia (location of Sinjar)
2. Syria (a number of Yazidis here)
3. Armenia (close by)
4. Persia (also close by)
5. Khiva, Balauchistan (same as Zoroastrians from here on)
6. Punjab, Sindh
7. Jerusalem/Israel
8. Egypt
9. Anatolia
10. Arabia
11. Greece
12. Africa, Nubia
13. Georgia, Bulgaria, Serbia
14. Abyssinia, Sicily, Mauritania, Croatia, Hungary, Wallachia, Taurica, Alania, Turkestan, Delhi, Rajputana, Gujarat, Tamilakam
15. Andalusia, Bavaria, Cumania, Khotan, Kosala, Karnata, Maharastra, Malwa, Andhra, Lanka
16. Italy
17. Mali, Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Castille, Asturias, Navarra, Aragon, Aquitaine, Burgundy, Bohemia, Ruthenia, Volga Bulgaria, Mongolia, Bihar
18. France
19. Lotharingia
20. Germany/Saxony
21. England
22. Brittany, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Frisia, Denmark, Pomerania, Poland, Rus, Bengal
23. Norway, Sweden, Finland, Lithuania, Telingana, Gondwana, Kamarupa, Orissa
24. Perm

Yazidis are non-Muslims, so they get a different list based on the Zoroastrian one.

Germanic Reformed:
1. Denmark, Norway, Sweden (Norse homelands to be defended at all costs)
2. Saxony (also important Germanic territory)
3. England, Frisia, Germany (Major Christian kingdoms full of Norse and Germanic holy sites)
4. France (very important Catholic land)
5. Sicily (historically conquered by Normans, good jumping-off point for Italy)
6. Italy (capital of Latin Christendom)
7. Greece (Miklagard, under heavy Norse influence for a long time)
8. Finland, Perm
8. Andalusia (parts of the old Germanic kingdoms of the Visigoths and the Suebi)
9. Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Castille, Asturias, Navarra, Aragon (mopping up Iberia)
10. Brittany, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Lotharingia, Burgundy, Bavaria (mopping up western Europe)
11. Africa (the Vandal kingdom)
12. Persia (Serkland)
13. Egypt (Also Serkland, a good route to the Indian ocean)
14. Hungary (Once home to Gepids, Goths, Lombards and other Germanic tribes)
15. Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Anatolia, Georgia, Armenia (mopping up the Byzantines)
16. Taurica (Still inhabited by Gothic peoples in some areas)
17. Poland, Bohemia, Pomerania, Lithuania, Rus, Ruthenia (mopping up eastern Europe)
18. Mauritania, Jerusalem/Israel, Syria, Arabia (mopping up the middle east)
19. Volga Bulgaria, Alania (steppes reachable by river)
20. Balauchistan, Sindh, Punjab, Gujarat, Maharastra, Tamilakam, Rajputana, Lanka, Bengal, Bihar, Kosala, Delhi (Norse India)
21. Malwa, Gondwana, Orissa, Andhra, Telingana, Karnata, Kamarupa (Indian interior)
22. Nubia, Abyssinia
23. Afghanistan, Cumania, Khiva
24. Mongolia, Khotan, Turkestan, Mali

Because the Vikings can attack very well over the sea and can travel down rivers, they have lots of disparate crusade targets across the world that don't necessarily border each other.

Jewish:
1. Israel (the Promised Land)
2. Egypt (land of Moses)
3. Abyssinia, Mesopotamia, Syria, Arabia (large historical Jewish communities)
4. Persia (Cyrus saved the Jews from Babylon)
5. Afghanistan, Balauchistan (theorised locations of the lost tribes)
6. Sindh, Gujarat, Maharastra, Tamilakam (the Beni Israel in India)
7. Africa, Armenia, Georgia, Nubia (strategic depth)
8. Alania (recovering the Khazar kingdom)
9. Taurica, Cumania (recovering the Khazar kingdom)
10. Andalusia, Sicily (multicultural kingdoms with large Jewish minorities)
11. Italy, Greece (revenge on the Romans for centuries of persecution)
12. Aquitaine, Burgundy, Bavaria (rescuing Jewish minorities there)
13. France
14. Lotharingia, England
15. Germany/Saxony, Frisia
16. Mauritania, Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Asturias, Castille, Navarra, Aragon, Wales, Brittany, Ireland, Scotland (mopping up western Europe)
17. Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Wallachia (Securing the Balkans)
18. Volga Bulgaria, Ruthenia, Turkestan, Khiva (mopping up Khazaria)
19. Rajputana, Punjab, Malwa, Lanka, Karnata (Indian expansion)
20. Delhi, Kosala, Gondwana
21. Bihar
22. Bengal
23. Orissa, Kamarupa, Telingana, Andhra
24. Poland, Bohemia, Pomerania, Denmark, Lithuania, Hungary, Rus
25. Sweden, Norway, Finland
26. Mongolia, Khotan
27. Mali
28. Perm

Reformed Tengri:
1. Mongolia (the Altai Mountains)
2. Cumania, Turkestan, Alania, Volga Bulgaria (the main belt of the steppes)
3. Taurica (Holy site in Crimea)
4. Hungary (site of steppe nomad invasions for millennia)
5. Wallachia, Ruthenia, Rus, Bulgaria, Croatia, Serbia, Georgia, Khiva, Khotan (logical areas of expansion)
6. Greece, Persia, Bavaria, Afghanistan (historic targets of nomadic invasions)
7. Balauchistan, Punjab, Rajasthan, Sindh (these regions were frequently invaded and settled by central Asians)
8. Delhi, Gujarat, Malwa (Indian expansion)
9. Maharastra, Kosala
10. Bengal, Karnata
11. Bohemia, Poland, Lithuania, Finland, Perm, Anatolia, Armenia, Mesopotamia (logical targets)
12. Arabia, Syria, Jerusalem, Sweden, Pomerania, Germany, Italy
13. Burgundy, Lotharingia, Frisia, Denmark, Norway, Sicily, Egypt
14. Aquitaine, France, Africa, Nubia
15. Aragon, Navarra, Brittany, Mauritania, Abyssinia
16. Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Asturias, Castille, Mali
17. Tamilakam, Telingana, Gondwana, Andhra, Orissa, Kamarupa (jungle is difficult for nomads to enter)
18. Lanka, England (on islands)
19. Scotland, Wales
20. Ireland (also on an island)

Reformed Slavic:
1. Rus, Ruthenia, Poland (ancient Slavic homelands)
2. Pomerania, Bohemia (West Slavic nations)
3. Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria (South Slavic nations)
4. Perm (historically colonised by Slavs)
5. Volga Bulgaria, Cumania, Taurica, Wallachia (Sviatoslav's invasions hit these areas)
6. Alania (Sviatoslav's invasions hit this area)
7. Lithuania, Finland, Georgia (close to the Slavic lands)
8. Greece (historically colonised by Slavs)
9. Denmark, Sweden (Slavic pirates sometimes struck these areas)
10. Germany, Hungary, Bavaria (historically inhabited by at least some Slavs)
11. Mongolia, Turkestan (Colonised by Russia much later)
12. Khiva, Khotan
13. France, Italy (Slavic invasions of the west)
14. Andalusia (lots of Slavic slaves lived in Islamic Spain)
15. Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Asturias, Castille, Navarra, Aragon, Brittany, Aquitaine, Burgundy, Lotharingia, Frisia, Sicily, Norway (mopping up)
16. England
17. Scotland, Wales, Ireland
18. Mauritania, Anatolia, Armenia, Persia, Afghanistan
19. Africa, Syria, Mesopotamia, Balauchistan, Punjab
20. Egypt, Arabia, Jerusalem
21. Sindh, Delhi, Rajasthan
22. Gujarat, Malwa, Kosala
23. Bihar, Gondwana, Maharastra
24. Karnata, Tamilakam, Telingana, Bengal, Orissa, Andhra
25. Lanka, Kamarupa
26. Nubia, Mali
27. Abyssinia

Reformed Romuva:
1. Lithuania (the core of the Romuva faith)
2. Ruthenia, Poland (contain holy sites)
3. Pomerania (contains a holy site)
4. Rus, Finland (close to Lithuania)
6. Denmark, Sweden (on the Baltic coast)
7. Norway, Perm (logical targets)
8. Germany, Bohemia, Hungary, Wallachia, Taurica, Cumania
9. Frisia, Lotharingia, Bavaria, Croatia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Alania, Turkestan, Mongolia
10. Burgundy, France, Italy, Greece, Anatolia, Armenia, Persia, Khiva, Khotan
11. Brittany, England, Aquitaine, Sicily, Syria, Mesopotamia, Afghanistan, Balauchistan
12. Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Navarra, Aragon, Jerusalem, Arabia, Punjab
13. Andalusia, Castille, Asturias, Egypt, Sindh, Delhi, Rajasthan
14. Portugal, Galicia, Leon, Mauritania, Africa, Nubia, Gujarat, Malwa, Kosala
15. Mali, Abyssinia, Bihar, Gondwana, Maharastra
16. Karnata, Tamilakam, Telingana, Bengal, Orissa, Andhra
17. Lanka, Kamarupa

Reformed Suomenusko:
1. Finland (largest Suomenusko area)
2. Perm, Rus (Finnish countries)
3. Sweden, Norway (Northern parts are Finnish)
4. Ruthenia, Lithuania (contain Suomenusko holy sites)
5. Cumania, Mongolia (full of dangerous nomads)
6. Poland, Pomerania, Denmark (forested areas of Northern Europe)
7. Scotland, Germany, Bohemia
8. England, Ireland, Lotharingia, Frisia, Bavaria
9. France, Wales, Croatia
10. Brittany, Aquitaine, Serbia
11. Navarra, Castille, Leon, Asturias, Galicia, Bulgaria
12. Andalusia, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Greece, Wallachia, Taurica, Alania, Turkestan, Khotan (logical targets now that forested areas are exhausted)
13. Mauritania, Sicily, Anatolia, Georgia, Khiva
14. Mali, Africa, Syria, Armenia, Persia, Afghanistan
15. Egypt, Jerusalem, Mesopotamia, Balauchistan, Punjab.
16. Nubia, Arabia, Sindh, Delhi, Rajasthan
17. Abyssinia, Gujarat, Malwa, Kosala
18. Bihar, Gondwana, Maharastra
19. Karnata, Tamilakam, Telingana, Bengal, Orissa, Andhra
20. Lanka, Kamarupa

Reformed West African:
1. Mali (West African homeland)
2. Mauritania (Holy sites, inhabited by Berbers and Tuareg)
3. Africa (Holy sites, inhabited by Berbers and Tuareg)
4. Andalusia, Sicily, Egypt (conquest of the Muslim Mediterranean)
5. Nubia
6. Abyssinia
7. Arabia
8. Mesopotamia, Jerusalem
9. Syria, Armenia
10. Portugal, Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Castille, Navarra, Aragon
11. Aquitaine
12. Burgundy, France
13. Italy
14. Bavaria, England
15. Lotharingia, Brittany, Wales, Ireland, Scotland, Frisia, Croatia
16. Tamilakam (invasion of India)
17. Lanka, Maharastra, Karnata, Andhra
18. Gujarat, Malwa, Telingana, Gondwana, Orissa
19. Rajasthan, Kosala, Bihar, Bengal
20. Sindh, Delhi, Punjab, Kamarupa
21. Afghanistan, Balauchistan, Persia (closing the loop)
22. Serbia, Anatolia, Georgia (conquest of Byzantium)
23. Greece, Bulgaria
24. Germany, Bohemia, Hungary, Wallachia, Khiva (logical targets)
25. Denmark, Poland, Pomerania, Taurica, Ruthenia, Alania, Turkestan
26. Sweden, Norway, Lithuania, Rus, Cumania, Khotan
27. Finland, Volga Bulgaria, Mongolia
28. Perm

Reformed Zunist:
1. Afghanistan (Zunbil homeland)
2. Punjab (Holy site in Multan)
3. Balauchistan (very similar inhabitants)
4. Sindh (geographically close)
5. Rajputana, Delhi, Gujarat (the Zunbil faith was similar to Hinduism)
6. Kosala, Malwa, Maharastra
7. Bihar, Karnata
8. Bengal
9. Persia, Khiva (geographically-close, similar inhabitants)
10. Mesopotamia (Zunist Holy Site)
11. Egypt (Zunist Holy Site)
12. Arabia, Jerusalem, Syria, Africa, Nubia (securing Egypt)
13. Kamarupa, Orissa, Gondwana, Andhra (the Indian jungles)
14. Telingana, Tamilakam (South India)
15. Lanka (the last Indian kingdom)
16. Greece, Italy (Sol Invictus)
17. Mauritania, Burgundy, Bavaria, Sicily, Serbia, Bulgaria, Anatolia, Abyssinia, Armenia, Georgia, Turkestan (logical targets)
18. Andalusia, Mali, Aquitaine, France, Croatia, Hungary, Wallachia, Taurica, Alania, Cumania, Khotan
19. Lotharingia
20. Portugal, Galicia, Asturias, Leon, Castille, Navarra, Aragon, Brittany, Germany, Bohemia, Poland, Ruthenia, Volga Bulgaria, Mongolia
21. England, Frisia
22. Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Pomerania, Lithuania, Rus
23. Norway, Sweden, Finland
24. Perm (no Zun up here!)

Reformed Aztec:
1. Mauritania, Andalusia, England (Aztec landing zones with holy sites)
2. Italy (Christian capital)
3. Greece, Denmark, Egypt (control important straits and Isthmuses)
3. Galicia, Brittany, Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Norway (additional Aztec landing sites)
4. Asturias, Leon, Castille, Navarra, Aquitaine, France, Frisia, Denmark, Finland, Perm, Africa, Aragon, Burgundy, Sicily (Atlantic and western Mediterranean coast)
5. Sweden, Pomerania, Lithuania (Baltic coast)
6. Bavaria, Croatia, Serbia, Wallachia, Taurica, Georgia, Anatolia, Syria, Jerusalem (eastern Mediterranean coast)
7. Arabia, Nubia, Abyssinia, Mesopotamia, Persia, Balauchistan, Sindh, Gujarat, Rajputana, Maharastra, Tamilakam, Lanka, Andhra, Orissa, Bengal (Indian Ocean coast)
8. Lotharingia, Germany/Saxony, Hungary, Poland, Bohemia, Rus, Ruthenia, Alania, Armenia, Afghanistan, Punjab, Malwa, Bihar, Telingana, Karnata, Kampura (inland kingdoms)
9. Delhi, Kosala (double-landlocked kingdoms)
10. Volga Bulgaria, Cumania, Khiva, Turkestan, Mongolia, Khotan (steppes)

Dr Gonzo · Jul 24, 2016

TheDungen said:
Well all in all it's my intention that my progression is going to be smoother leading to less crusades being called for the same target twice in a row, even my highest gap is roughly 200 weight, while in the unmodded game I think the gap between france and italy is something like 5000.

Well the scandianvian kings crusaded in the baltic during the second and third crusades if memory serves me right, but that's another thing that the game cannot model, that the same crusade may have several targets. The second crusade was launched for edessa (right? or was it aleppo?) but ended up making most of it's gains in the wends and iberia.

It'd be really nice with some feedback on the items further down the list, the rest of the middleeast, persia, africa, the steppes and india.

Edit: With weights, x^2 (where x is the position from the bottom) I think the progression may be a little to steep near the top of the list, I may redo it with (x/2)^2 or something later.

k_italy 7396
k_thracia 7225
k_byzantium 7056
k_macedon 6889
k_aquitaine 6724
k_nicaea 6561
k_france 6400
k_lotharingia 6241
k_bavaria 6084
k_germany 5929
k_england 5776
k_sicily/k_naples 5625
k_asturias 5476
k_aragon 5329
k_spanish_galicia 5184
k_croatia 5041
k_castille 4900
k_leon 4761
k_portugal 4624
k_israel/k_jerusalem 4489
k_syria 4356
k_egypt 4225
k_africa 4096
k_anatolia 3969
k_frisia 3844
k_bohemia/k_moravia 3721
k_saxony 3600
k_scotland 3481
k_ireland 3364
k_poland 3249
k_andalusia 3136
k_serbia 3025
k_dacia 2916
k_bulgaria 2809
k_brittany 2704
k_denmark 2601
k_pomerania 2500
k_hungary 2401
k_gotaland 2304
k_sweden 2209
k_wales 2116
k_navarra 2025
k_norway 1936
k_esthonia 1849
k_finland 1764
k_lithuania 1681
k_mesopotamia 1600
k_georgia 1521
k_taurica 1444
k_ruthenia 1369
k_armenia 1296
k_alania 1225
k_persia 1156
k_rus 1089
k_sapmi 1024
k_perm 961
k_volga_bulgaria 900
k_baluchistan 841
k_sindh 784
k_rajputana 729
k_gujarat 676
k_khiva 625
k_delhi 575
k_khotan 529
k_malwa 484
k_punjab 441
k_arabia 400
k_mauretania 361
k_abyssinia 324
k_kosala 289
k_maharastra 256
k_cumania 225
k_turkestan 196
k_tamilakam 169
k_lanka 144
k_afghanistan 121
k_karnata 100
k_nubia 81
k_andhra 64
k_telingana 49
k_orissa 36
k_bengal 25
k_bihar 16
k_kamarupa 9
k_gondwana 4
k_mali 1

Hi TheDungen. Speaking from experience, I don't think this will work quite as well as you hope. I've actually done the same thing in my own TC mod, which isn't out but which I've been working on for years, mostly for my own amusement

I found that because the papal decision making is based on a more complex formula than just the weights, you need to have bigger gaps between areas to make the ai choose the right regions. Bigger kingdoms will still be more attractive to the pope when deciding which to invade and I think military strength comes into it too. For example here:

k_israel/k_jerusalem 4489
k_syria 4356
k_egypt 4225
k_africa 4096

You will find k_jerusalem is not actually much more likely to be picked than any of these others. Especially as Egypt and Syria both contain more holdings (I think). If that's what you're going for then great, but I found this a bit frustrating when trying to fine tune.

Dr Gonzo · Jul 25, 2016

Fishman786 said:
Catholic, Fraticeli:
0. Yorkshire (God's own county (yes I am an entitled git ))
1. Italy (seat of the Pope)
2. France, Burgundy, Aquitaine, Bavaria, Lotharingia (very near to Italy and a long Christian history with a lot of Holy sites)
3. Greece (to reclaim Constantinople)
...

Fixed your list.

Aside from that there are a few strange ones in there. Why would West Africans coming up through Morocco go for India before Europe? It felt more logical to me to just go out from a theoretical 'homeland' with a few tweaks for flavour (e.g. Jerusalem being high priority and Tengri going to islands last.)

Fishman786 · Jul 25, 2016

Dr Gonzo said:
Fixed your list. Aside from that there are a few strange ones in there. Why would West Africans coming up through Morocco go for India before Europe? It felt more logical to me to just go out from a theoretical 'homeland' with a few tweaks for flavour (e.g. Jerusalem being high priority and Tengri going to islands last.)

I've been making this list all day and I got tired near the end...

They do go to Europe first, basically the West African crusades start in Africa, sweep across the continent and then push out in two directions across the Mediterranean and the Red Sea. Once those areas are taken it just goes to the standard system of assigning targets based on proximity. There are a lot of reformed pagan faiths in this game, many with very little historical backing for things like crusade weights (especially Suomenusko and West African) and I wanted to avoid them all being the same.

- Germanic targets a bunch of coastal lands first and then consolidates
- Tengri starts in the steppes, invades India and Europe and does islands and jungles last
- Slavic expands everywhere with a bias towards eastern Europe and the steppes, and does India last
- Romuva is just based on proximity all the way around
- West African targets western Europe and India and does the steppes last
- Suomenusko moves across the top of the map
- Zunist immediately goes after India
- Aztec targets all coastlines and launches attacks on the richest kingdoms first.

Assign kingdom crusade (jihad/great holy war) priority.

Field Marshal

Chartularius Hamburgensis

Broken record

Field Marshal

Colonel

Field Marshal

Colonel

Field Marshal

Colonel

Field Marshal

Broken record

Colonel

Field Marshal

Ichi no Hito

General

Field Marshal

Maharaja

Major

Major

Maharaja