Assault Gun Love?

[BurdenedWarrior]

Been wondering the last few day whether vanilla will have assault guns: Stug Life

Anyways I know in the tank tech tree you can research three varients/classes/specialties. You can build an anti-aircraft, anti-tank, and self-propelled artillery.

Now to my point. Where's the assault gun love? The Assault gun as equipment falls in-between antitank and SP art. So its a generalist equipment.

I'm a big fan of the simplification of certain mechanics in hoi 4. Vanilla will be awesome and so will the in-depth mods. Just curious that pdx didn't add this type to the varients techs. Mostly because of the popularity of the Stug lll and the SU 76. Both in WW2 and us!

Anyways comments welcome. Stug Life or SU memes welcome too.

 

[Nicolas I]

It's there.

...The StuG there is represented by one of the buttons on the Panzer III tech (the one that looks like a bullet striking armor). We only have pictures of the main chassis at the moment, variants are indicated by those icons/buttons...

 

[panzerzombie]

I didn´t like this too. Lumping together TD with AssaultGuns is atrocious , how could they.... ?

How could we simulate heavily armored Stugs with this. TD´s are better armored than standard tanks or any of the other models so how does a Marder or a M10 fit in ? SPG are obviously better at SoftAttack but less armored so how does a Brummbär or SIG33 or SU152 fit in ?

And none of them are cheaper than a regular tank, which was one of the main reasons they were built in the first place...

Modding I guess, or hopefully waiting for dlc

edit: obviously my post was not understood correctly, I´m talking about the ingame values shown in the WWW´s, the TD´s ARE better armored INGAME and have a very low SA. Its not an opinion these are fact...

 

[Axe99]

The title of this thread could be the name of a really tacky military-themed romance/porn film .

On the substance, though, I'm sure it'll be possible to mod something in fairly easily if it's not there (in an assault gun form, we know there are Stug TDs), and by the sound of it the division designer will be smart enough to know how to us them (if we set them up right).

 

[joe9594]

Yeah this was something that I was rather surprised at when the variant system was announced. Having a variant for specialist aa tanks but nothing for assault guns does seem odd but from a game play perspective it probably isn't that important because stats are summed from all brigades. So having sp art and tank destroyers (and an armor divisions will quite possibly have both) or one and regular tanks can probably can be considered as an abstraction of all armored vehicles given that those together will give a lot of soft and hard attack.

 

[Xsio]

Been wondering the last few day whether vanilla will have assault guns: Stug Life

Anyways I know in the tank tech tree you can research three varients/classes/specialties. You can build an anti-aircraft, anti-tank, and self-propelled artillery.

Now to my point. Where's the assault gun love? The Assault gun as equipment falls in-between antitank and SP art. So its a generalist equipment.

I'm a big fan of the simplification of certain mechanics in hoi 4. Vanilla will be awesome and so will the in-depth mods. Just curious that pdx didn't add this type to the varients techs. Mostly because of the popularity of the Stug lll and the SU 76. Both in WW2 and us!

Anyways comments welcome. Stug Life or SU memes welcome too.

StuG III was based on PzKpfw III and was used primly as an TD (so in game terms it's just a Panzer III TD modification). Same thing with SU 76 (T 60 chassis) .

Assault guns were used as front line infantry support (heavy armor + big gun). Haven't seen the stats but may be It's SP art version of PzKpfw III? StuH 42

 

[panzerzombie]

StuG III was based on PzKpfw III and was used primly as an TD (so in game terms it's just a Panzer III TD modification). Same thing with SU 76 (T 60 chassis) .

Assault guns where used as front line infantry support (heavy armor + big gun). Haven't seen the stats but may be It's SP art version of PzKpfw III? StuH 42

Yeah, thats one of the reasons it doesn´t fit ... SPG´s ingame armor and hardness is lower than standard tank, which is true for real SPGs like Sexton, Wespe, Hummel etc. but not for assault guns.

 

[panzerzombie]

Yeah this was something that I was rather surprised at when the variant system was announced. Having a variant for specialist aa tanks but nothing for assault guns does seem odd but from a game play perspective it probably isn't that important because stats are summed from all brigades. So having sp art and tank destroyers (and an armor divisions will quite possibly have both) or one and regular tanks can probably can be considered as an abstraction of all armored vehicles given that those together will give a lot of soft and hard attack.

Yes you can do that and it will have exactly the effect you have described but just adding assault guns as separate units would have been such a simple solution.

 

[elmalvad0]

SPG´s ingame armor and hardness is lower than standard tank, which is true for real SPGs like Sexton, Wespe, Hummel etc. but not for assault guns.

Thats kinda weird, I agree. Ideally, assault guns would have better guns and armour than their chassis parent, but with lowered breakthrough.

 

[Nicolas I]

Hera are a few things devs said about tanks:

...As for TD/SPART (B) etc they are sometimes referred to as variants I guess in diaries as "a variant of X", but that is a bit confusing. They are totally different equipment. Its just a convenient way of showing a lot of subtechs based on one chassi. In-game we dont refer to them as variants, its all just equipment.

Thanks for the clarification.
One thing though, are there variants of "B"? For example, can I have StuG III "Mark 2"?.

Yup

1. a variant created is a new piece of equipment. I'll use an example people might be more familiar with. Imagine you have researched a Panzer IV F (if I recall, the version we base our Panzer IV on and the one with the 75mm gun) and you create a variant from that increasing its armor. You may now call that the Panzer IV G. its a different tank, but will have a minimal impact on efficiency when switching over the previous Panzer IV production line should you choose to do so.

 

[joe9594]

Yes you can do that and it will have exactly the effect you have described but just adding assault guns as separate units would have been such a simple solution.

Yeah but it isnt really a significant problem and if you add simply solutions to everything that is almost a problem then they will rapidly start to make your game flabby and difficult to understand and play.

 

[Archangel85]

Yeah but it isnt really a significant problem and if you add simply solutions to everything that is almost a problem then they will rapidly start to make your game flabby and difficult to understand and play.

Aka Black ICE syndrome.

 

[Wimpola]

Just gotta love Stug Life

 

[Carroarmato-P40]

HOI4 and we still don't have stand alone assault guns... The travesty.. :/
If anything else, make it doctrine specific to the Soviet and German trees (Blitz / kampfgruppe and mass doctrine).

 

[tommylotto]

Pz.III TD sub-model variant with increased armor and soft attack; or...
Pz.III SPART sub-model variant with increased armor, hard attack and piercing; or...
Mod it.

 

[Nicolas I]

Though everybody is free to enjoy the game as they like, I don't understand what some people complain about in this thread.

In my eyes the models/variants system add a lot of flexibility to allow the players to create a diversity of armoured vehicles, tanks or assault guns or tanks destroyers as they like. And you can name each model, variant, sub-variant as you like. So it's up to the player to recreate what he thinks was the historical equipment of the country he wants to play. Or to experiment by creating new ones.

By the way, I don't like everything in HOI4 (lack of fuel!), but the models/variants system looks like an improvement.

 

[Kovax]

StuG III was based on PzKpfw III and was used primly as an TD (so in game terms it's just a Panzer III TD modification). Same thing with SU 76 (T 60 chassis) .

Assault guns were used as front line infantry support (heavy armor + big gun). Haven't seen the stats but may be It's SP art version of PzKpfw III? StuH 42

LATER StuG IIIs were used as TDs, but all of the early models were armed with the same short-barrel 75mm gun (75L24?) as the early Panzer IV, and were used almost exclusively in an infantry support role. The StuG III made a rather pathetic TD until the higher velocity gun was installed....which is why Germany built Jagdpanzers and PanzerJaegers as TDs (literally "hunting tanks" and "tank hunters").

The StuG IV may have debuted with the medium-length gun (75L43 or L48), making it a dual-purpose design by initial intent rather than as a refit. The StuH was a rather rare heavy demolition gun variant for bunker busting.

NOT a StuG

 

[Xsio]

LATER StuG IIIs were used as TDs, but all of the early models were armed with the same short-barrel 75mm gun (75L24?) as the early Panzer IV, and were used almost exclusively in an infantry support role. The StuG III made a rather pathetic TD until the higher velocity gun was installed....which is why Germany built Jagdpanzers and PanzerJaegers as TDs (literally "hunting tanks" and "tank hunters").

The StuG IV may have debuted with the medium-length gun (75L43 or L48), making it a dual-purpose design by initial intent rather than as a refit. The StuH was a rather rare heavy demolition gun variant for bunker busting.
View attachment 175246
NOT a StuG

I'm not sure what you wanted to say.

Compare amount of Stug III Ausf. A,B (short barrel 37/L24) ~360 units to Stug III Ausf. G (40/L43.) ~ 8 200 manufactured during war and you'll understand why I think Stug III is TD and not Assault Gun.

 

[Sledzik95]

On picture is 43M Zrínyi

 

[Kovax]

On picture is 43M Zrínyi

Hungarian Zrinyi 43M SPG, very similar to the Italian Semovente.

Note that the StuG III wasn't upgunned until early 1942, and the new medium-barrel version didn't start showing up on the Russian Front until that summer. The short-barrel version was used in both France and Poland, and in the initial phases of Barbarossa. In my opinion, it qualifies as both TD and SPG, but only in the latter role at the start of the war.