Asimov: Three Laws of Slavery (And how it wasn't nerfed)

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Dustman

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He farms influences using Fanatic Militarist/Xenophobe, and doesn't actually use his own race for much past the homeworld-tweaking part of his rush strategy, just enslaves the xenos and moves on to the next enemy homeworld. When he runs out of homeworlds, the game is over.

P.S. Err... If I had to guess, I mean. I totally wouldn't know about this from experience. o_0

So, just xeno-slaves everywhere? Since research is done by mostly disassembling stuff, creds might be sufficient. But why would one need so much influence if colonization is not a priority, most aliens are enslaved outright == no alliance/treaty drain? Just for edicts? But really, it doesn't matter much for slaves.
 

Fawks

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So, just xeno-slaves everywhere? Since research is done by mostly disassembling stuff, creds might be sufficient. But why would one need so much influence if colonization is not a priority, most aliens are enslaved outright == no alliance/treaty drain? Just for edicts? But really, it doesn't matter much for slaves.

Xeno-slaves as far as the eye can see, produce credits from your homeworld, and he isn't even going to unlock colonization in the first place. He doesn't care as much for your minerals as you might think, either (he's already getting plenty, his pops have Very Strong/Industrialist and he'll have his policies, edicts, and governors optimized for this). He's mostly enslaving your pops to control their Happiness malus and manage Factions.

Screw research, he only needs a handful of techs and will get most of the Militarist techs he needs from debris/space monsters (he basically only needs rank 2 kinetics and crystal-forged armor, anyway, his idea of "late game" is about thirty minutes into the match).

He won't be allying with anyone or making any treaties whatsoever, he'll be rivaling everyone he meets instantly and pumping influence to cycle admirals as fast possible to get optimal stats, then he'll optimize his scientists, and governors, in that order.

In many ways it's not slavery that's OP, it's hands-on micromanagement and unbridled aggression (...and in and of itself, that's not a bad thing. imo it's corvettes that need the nerf, not slavery, sector a.i. needs a buff/change that makes using slaves easier for those aren't kinda-maybe-partially-OCD-micro-nerds like myself and probably Tuk, too, though I don't mean it in a bad way and I'm not saying he has OCD. Guys like us who get into optimal builds and start orders, well, we're just gonna move on to "the next OP thing" anyway, so it doesn't really even matter that much what you nerf, it only matters how fast we can crowdsource ways to exploit the new meta).

* P.S. BTW, I did slave-rush long enough to get a pretty good handle on how it works and how to beat it (pro tip, fix their position and wipe them out or vassalize them before they take their third planet or you've already lost, you just don't know it yet), I've since moved on to builds that make me more acceptable to both human and AI allies, but other than the slaving part I play pretty much exactly the way Tuk describes, though I abuse armies and abandon planet where he is abusing Faction mechanics, and my goal is to make you my willing servant, not to remove you from the game entirely. This is all because I like longer games now and a human vassal that's gonna auto-win when you win (and not doing silly stuff like trying to call a FE down on your head because they hate you IRL now) is 10x better than an AI vassal or even another homeworld, they can help with tah uber micro needed to pull off the really fun large-scale coordinated assaults the game allows for, and I prefer human vassals to alliances/feds early game because the vassals don't preclude me from joining alliances as I need to, whereas once I'm in a federation I'm kinda stuck there for political reasons unless I'm the one who started it (a Federation I start is going to last exactly 9 years every time, lol, then I'm going to invite everyone to the "new" one..).
 
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iKhan

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I tried the Fanatic Militarist and did two games with the last ethos point going to Xenophobes and Collectivism. This is my thought on each of them, Xenophobes are good at gaining influence faster, but is a faster way to make yourself pariah(Both of them do honestly, it doesnt matter) and is restriced to the primary species being the lynchpin. Any xenos in the empire has to slaves and the free(Starter race) has to do all the research and energy.
For collectivist, i found it better IMO(IDK if others have other ideas, plz let me know) since by the time you start conquering, I go ahead and try to integrate the xenos into my empire.
 

Loddgrimner

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I think it might be that collectivism is better for singleplayer, xenophobe might be better in mp. In singleplayer, playing on insane, agressive and with advanced ai empires, you don't really want to go around rivaling a bunch of these big ai empires just to get influence, since it will actually make them angry and attack your, while a player would just ignore you rivaling since it does't actually mean anything. Human players will tend to ignore xenophobes since they don't assimilate well, while ai will be further goaded into attacking them by the diplo penalty.

Against ai the mineral and assimilation advantages of collectivism helps a lot in the long drawn out war of attrition against ai with 100% resource bonus, while vs humans getting that influence to stack all the bonuses from admirals etc at the critical first attack might be more important, since when you win the first few wars it's over.
 
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Lichslayer

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Xenophobe
+10% happy building
+5/10% happy from combining with either spiritualism or materialism and respective democratic government.
+25% rivalry gain
-More Diplomatic penalties
-When you brainwash aliens they turn into xenophobes, giving you happyness problems
-Can't have unenslaved species together

Collectivist
+Can enslave at start, a few slaves without putting regulated on for 20% more mineral output on own pops, increasing and accelerating mineral income growth at start.
+Can brainwash aliens into willing slaves.
+Get some ethic convergence stuff, helping with large empire and to brainwash aliens.
+Can use share burden with regulated slavery (+20% output, cost 2 influence)
+Can build slavery building (+15% slave output)
+Can purge own pops
+5% less food need

Did I miss anything?
Xenophobe
-When you brainwash aliens they turn into xenophobes, giving you happyness problems
You will not get enough ethics convergence as a xenophobe, so most pops will not drift towards xenophobia.

-Can't have unenslaved species together
Well why would you want that? Even when i allow free migration to appease some individualists, it barely ever happens, beacuse of different ecological tolerance and my home planets being full anyway so xeno filth will not move to my core worlds to pester my xenophobic species.

Collectivist
+Can brainwash aliens into willing slaves.
Takes too long and they have to be happy in the first place for convergence to kick in, so in theory yes, outside of the test-tube not so much.

+Get some ethic convergence stuff, helping with large empire and to brainwash aliens.
Same. Happiness>>Ethics convergence in this regard, always.

+Can purge own pops
Why would you even do that?

Bottomline is - collectivist is imho a bit better if you want to keep going slavery, i usually drop slavery mid game to improve my energy/tech yields, but its just a personal preference.
 
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