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More badgering
Is there anyone who can do new shields? I made a jpg. of what the characters should look like using some Chinese fonts, but I'd have no idea how to translate that into EU2 artwork.
Is there anyone who can do new shields? I made a jpg. of what the characters should look like using some Chinese fonts, but I'd have no idea how to translate that into EU2 artwork.
I'd leave off on new shields till the end, better to get the events done, after all shields have no effect on actual gameplay, you could try and raid the agceep though
Song monarchs
Well, from what I discovered, monarch ids greater than 40830 are open, so the Song monarch file I've made uses 40813, and 40831-40866. Since I have no idea what you guys are working on, I figured I should let you know when I do something like that to avoid conflicting.
The Song dynasty goes like this now:
There's the main line of emperors (family name Zhao, 趙) that is in place at the start of the game and continues unbroken through 12 monarchs ending in 1562 after a string of four weak ones (Zheng 正, Sheng 昇, Wu 武, and then Fu 祔) representing a dynastic struggle between siblings.
This crisis allows the player to choose between two brothers, the sons of the last "strong" emperor, Qie Zong, who dies in 1557. One brother, Zhao Fan, represents the continuation of the Confucian Zhao emperors and signifies the intent of reuniting China as it used to be; he becomes De Zong, the Glorious Ancestor, and triggers events aimed at Song conquering the other Chinese kingdoms. The other brother Zhao Hui, the younger brother, is living in a Buddhist monastery, and represents Theravadan influence in the Song court. Choosing him signifies turning away from the idea of old China and following a new destiny in Indochina; this path can eventually lead to religious conversion of Song. If he's chosen, Zhao Hui becomes Fo Zu (佛祖), "Forefather Buddha", the Zu indicating something of a "second founding" of the Song dynasty.
Choosing Zhao Fan leads to 8 more Confucian emperors ending in Lao Zong, the venerable, who dies in 1766 without a clear successor (all his heirs died for various reasons).
Choosing Zhao Hui leads to 8 more Buddhist monarchs (plus one of a pair of regents) ending in Kai Zong (Kai the impotent) in 1766 (hey, that date looks familiar!).
Here the player who chose the Confucian line can go with Lao Zong's nearer relative Quan (佺) Zong, who kinda sucks as a monarch but is closer to normal succession. He's Buddhist. Or, they can choose the more distantly related but still Confucian You Zong. Quan Zong lives to the end of the game, You Zong is followed by two more monarchs, the last of which is Qian Bu Di, who is particularly innovative and modern.
If the player chose the Buddhist line back in 1562, they can choose either of the above two (choosing You Zong means reverting to Confucianism maybe), or they can choose a successor from a different branch of the family, the Kuang (鄺) line, Kyun Jung (names for this line are in Cantonese only). This choice eliminates Han as a state culture and gains Dai Viet as a vassal and requires that Song converted to Buddhism earlier. And maybe moves the capital to Guangdong, I dunno.
As it is, I've written in all the monarchs in monarchs.u37 and made all the ones but the main Zhao Confucians dormant, and haven't put in skill values for most of them yet.
I would still very much appreciate comments/suggestions/criticisms from anyone at all; it'll at least give me new trains of thought to ride.
Well, from what I discovered, monarch ids greater than 40830 are open, so the Song monarch file I've made uses 40813, and 40831-40866. Since I have no idea what you guys are working on, I figured I should let you know when I do something like that to avoid conflicting.
The Song dynasty goes like this now:
There's the main line of emperors (family name Zhao, 趙) that is in place at the start of the game and continues unbroken through 12 monarchs ending in 1562 after a string of four weak ones (Zheng 正, Sheng 昇, Wu 武, and then Fu 祔) representing a dynastic struggle between siblings.
This crisis allows the player to choose between two brothers, the sons of the last "strong" emperor, Qie Zong, who dies in 1557. One brother, Zhao Fan, represents the continuation of the Confucian Zhao emperors and signifies the intent of reuniting China as it used to be; he becomes De Zong, the Glorious Ancestor, and triggers events aimed at Song conquering the other Chinese kingdoms. The other brother Zhao Hui, the younger brother, is living in a Buddhist monastery, and represents Theravadan influence in the Song court. Choosing him signifies turning away from the idea of old China and following a new destiny in Indochina; this path can eventually lead to religious conversion of Song. If he's chosen, Zhao Hui becomes Fo Zu (佛祖), "Forefather Buddha", the Zu indicating something of a "second founding" of the Song dynasty.
Choosing Zhao Fan leads to 8 more Confucian emperors ending in Lao Zong, the venerable, who dies in 1766 without a clear successor (all his heirs died for various reasons).
Choosing Zhao Hui leads to 8 more Buddhist monarchs (plus one of a pair of regents) ending in Kai Zong (Kai the impotent) in 1766 (hey, that date looks familiar!).
Here the player who chose the Confucian line can go with Lao Zong's nearer relative Quan (佺) Zong, who kinda sucks as a monarch but is closer to normal succession. He's Buddhist. Or, they can choose the more distantly related but still Confucian You Zong. Quan Zong lives to the end of the game, You Zong is followed by two more monarchs, the last of which is Qian Bu Di, who is particularly innovative and modern.
If the player chose the Buddhist line back in 1562, they can choose either of the above two (choosing You Zong means reverting to Confucianism maybe), or they can choose a successor from a different branch of the family, the Kuang (鄺) line, Kyun Jung (names for this line are in Cantonese only). This choice eliminates Han as a state culture and gains Dai Viet as a vassal and requires that Song converted to Buddhism earlier. And maybe moves the capital to Guangdong, I dunno.
As it is, I've written in all the monarchs in monarchs.u37 and made all the ones but the main Zhao Confucians dormant, and haven't put in skill values for most of them yet.
I would still very much appreciate comments/suggestions/criticisms from anyone at all; it'll at least give me new trains of thought to ride.
Other ideas
I'm also trying to think about ways in which the events of the four Chinas will interact. For example, if Ming is overrun by the Toluids, then Wei and Song should get an influx of refugees, like the Hakka migrations.
I'm also trying to think about ways in which the events of the four Chinas will interact. For example, if Ming is overrun by the Toluids, then Wei and Song should get an influx of refugees, like the Hakka migrations.
it might be useful to put up a summary of all the chinese factions and where they stand, also with china so fractured other religions like islam could make inroads
The problem with Islam in China is that MattyG made the Chagataids and the "Mongolia" faction (with I'm calling the Toluid Khanate) orthodox. So, there's orthodox/Nestorian christians to the north and west, Buddhist nations to the south and west (Tibet, Dai Viet, &c.), and Confucianism to the east.
I'm thinking that Buddhism could make more inroads, which is sort of where I went with the Song dynasty. Obviously, if the Mongols conquer China they'd be bringing at least some amount of orthodox influence.
IRL, Islam only made any real inroads into China in the far west of what is now the PROC, and this was a result of the central asian states (i.e., what is the Chagatai Khanate in Interregnum, and the Timurids, Uzbeks, &c. in vanilla) going muslim. So in Interregnum, the only avenue for Islam to arrive in China is through Indonesia and Champa. I'm still looking for the Champa stuff, btw, do you have any idea what thread it's in?
I'm thinking that Buddhism could make more inroads, which is sort of where I went with the Song dynasty. Obviously, if the Mongols conquer China they'd be bringing at least some amount of orthodox influence.
IRL, Islam only made any real inroads into China in the far west of what is now the PROC, and this was a result of the central asian states (i.e., what is the Chagatai Khanate in Interregnum, and the Timurids, Uzbeks, &c. in vanilla) going muslim. So in Interregnum, the only avenue for Islam to arrive in China is through Indonesia and Champa. I'm still looking for the Champa stuff, btw, do you have any idea what thread it's in?
China Summary
So, per M. Qiqleone's request, a quick summary of Chinese factions:
1. The Toluid Khanate. This is what would have been the Yuan dynasty had Khubilai Khan not been killed in battle vs. Ariq Boke. But, since he was killed, Ariq Boke failed to conquer southern China and held all the lands north of the Yangzi river (the river that runs right by Shanghai province on the EU2 map). Ariq Boke was very sympathetic to Nestorian Christians and so he, or his successor converted. They have all the same provinces that "Mongolia" has in 6.35, but I moved the capital up to Hohhot, b/c it's closer to Karakorum.
2. The Ming Dynasty. This is the actual Ming revolt against the Mongols, and is led at the start by the historical Yongle Emperor. They rose up against the Toluids and currently hold what they have in 6.35, plus province 1563 (Shaanxi). Confucian religion, Han culture. Also, very land-based, high serfdom, high aristocracy, narrow-minded. I'm working on them next, so they're not as fleshed out just yet.
3. The Song Dynasty. This is the historical Song dynasty which was IRL crushed by Khubilai Khan. Instead in Interregnum, they survived but have lost a large chunk of territory to a breakaway native Han dynasty, the Wei (desc. below). The Song start out rather backward and in disarray; they hold the same provinces as "Wei" in 6.35 plus province 1556 (Guizhou). I just posted an assload about them above, so that's all I'll say here.
4. The Wei Dynasty. This one is completely fictional in terms of monarchs, etc., but represents the internal crumbling of the Song dynasty. They hold the same provinces as "Tsing" in 6.35. I haven't done much on Wei yet, but the idea is that they are more innovative and naval, and unlike Ming or Song are not likely to try and unify China (they'd have a harder time of it anyway), and are more likely to colonize and explore.
5. Nanzhao. This is another historical kingdom that was crushed, historically, by the Mongols. They hold the same provinces of "Lu Chuan" in 6.35, and may be Theravadan (Buddhist) but I'm not sure yet. I don't plan to do too much with these guys; anyone who unites China would get Lu Chuan's provinces as cores, so they're something of a throwaway at the moment.
6. The Jurchen. They're labelled as "Manchu" in 6.35. I have no idea what to do with these guys just yet.
There's also the province of Lanzhou (1558) which MattyG had as part of a small three-province nation of Lanzhou. I was just going to give this province to the Toluids but now I'm not sure. I think that the Mongols without Khubilai would and should likely be a bit more divided. Maybe a Khasarid uprising, led by the princely family of Jochi Khasar, Genghis Khan's brother, who held land in this area-ish historically. I don't know.
That's it, very briefly. I said a lot more in this thread previously, so you can check there if you want more info, otherwise I'll keep posting here as it keeps happening.
So, per M. Qiqleone's request, a quick summary of Chinese factions:
1. The Toluid Khanate. This is what would have been the Yuan dynasty had Khubilai Khan not been killed in battle vs. Ariq Boke. But, since he was killed, Ariq Boke failed to conquer southern China and held all the lands north of the Yangzi river (the river that runs right by Shanghai province on the EU2 map). Ariq Boke was very sympathetic to Nestorian Christians and so he, or his successor converted. They have all the same provinces that "Mongolia" has in 6.35, but I moved the capital up to Hohhot, b/c it's closer to Karakorum.
2. The Ming Dynasty. This is the actual Ming revolt against the Mongols, and is led at the start by the historical Yongle Emperor. They rose up against the Toluids and currently hold what they have in 6.35, plus province 1563 (Shaanxi). Confucian religion, Han culture. Also, very land-based, high serfdom, high aristocracy, narrow-minded. I'm working on them next, so they're not as fleshed out just yet.
3. The Song Dynasty. This is the historical Song dynasty which was IRL crushed by Khubilai Khan. Instead in Interregnum, they survived but have lost a large chunk of territory to a breakaway native Han dynasty, the Wei (desc. below). The Song start out rather backward and in disarray; they hold the same provinces as "Wei" in 6.35 plus province 1556 (Guizhou). I just posted an assload about them above, so that's all I'll say here.
4. The Wei Dynasty. This one is completely fictional in terms of monarchs, etc., but represents the internal crumbling of the Song dynasty. They hold the same provinces as "Tsing" in 6.35. I haven't done much on Wei yet, but the idea is that they are more innovative and naval, and unlike Ming or Song are not likely to try and unify China (they'd have a harder time of it anyway), and are more likely to colonize and explore.
5. Nanzhao. This is another historical kingdom that was crushed, historically, by the Mongols. They hold the same provinces of "Lu Chuan" in 6.35, and may be Theravadan (Buddhist) but I'm not sure yet. I don't plan to do too much with these guys; anyone who unites China would get Lu Chuan's provinces as cores, so they're something of a throwaway at the moment.
6. The Jurchen. They're labelled as "Manchu" in 6.35. I have no idea what to do with these guys just yet.
There's also the province of Lanzhou (1558) which MattyG had as part of a small three-province nation of Lanzhou. I was just going to give this province to the Toluids but now I'm not sure. I think that the Mongols without Khubilai would and should likely be a bit more divided. Maybe a Khasarid uprising, led by the princely family of Jochi Khasar, Genghis Khan's brother, who held land in this area-ish historically. I don't know.
That's it, very briefly. I said a lot more in this thread previously, so you can check there if you want more info, otherwise I'll keep posting here as it keeps happening.
I've been reading Ahmed's history of Champa, but it's slow going translating his "inglizi". It seems, though, that he has Champa vassalizing Dai Viet, lots of conversions to Islam going on in SE asia and two random provinces in the southern Chinese state, annexing Dai Viet and creating a muslim vassal, the Hui Sultanate, out of the southern Chinese country.
This is all good, but I think it's obvious that anyone actually as the southern Chinese state would not want these things to happen, and would try to work against them as much as posisble. The AI would not be so good at it.
So, how about the conversion of, say Guizhou happens to Song. No problem with that one, though two provinces going to a hitherto locally unknown religion all at once is a bit much. If Song does not persecute them harshly or fight the muslim conversion, a second one goes a bit later, maybe Wenshan or Guangxi.
He also has Hainan being ceded to Song, which I was thinking too.
Anyway, if Dai Viet is successfully annexed by Champa peacefully, Song should get some refugees and a a few years later, Hui Sultanate should rebel, like the Order of the Crescent in Asia Minor does (is there any way at all to play as them?). That is, the Hui Sultanate can overwhelm Song and take over all its provinces, but a human player would likely not let that happen (i.e., and not lose the game completely).
The conversion of Dai Viet to Islam would also probably make Song more likely to convert to Theravadan Buddhism (i.e., Vietnamese Buddhism, not "Konfucian"), though the Song AI should be more interested in conquering its Chinese neighbors than meddling in the south.
This is all good, but I think it's obvious that anyone actually as the southern Chinese state would not want these things to happen, and would try to work against them as much as posisble. The AI would not be so good at it.
So, how about the conversion of, say Guizhou happens to Song. No problem with that one, though two provinces going to a hitherto locally unknown religion all at once is a bit much. If Song does not persecute them harshly or fight the muslim conversion, a second one goes a bit later, maybe Wenshan or Guangxi.
He also has Hainan being ceded to Song, which I was thinking too.
Anyway, if Dai Viet is successfully annexed by Champa peacefully, Song should get some refugees and a a few years later, Hui Sultanate should rebel, like the Order of the Crescent in Asia Minor does (is there any way at all to play as them?). That is, the Hui Sultanate can overwhelm Song and take over all its provinces, but a human player would likely not let that happen (i.e., and not lose the game completely).
The conversion of Dai Viet to Islam would also probably make Song more likely to convert to Theravadan Buddhism (i.e., Vietnamese Buddhism, not "Konfucian"), though the Song AI should be more interested in conquering its Chinese neighbors than meddling in the south.
So that even would be something like this, in "pseudoscript":
Triggered by Champa annexes Vietnam event:
Event name: Buddhists flee Dai Viet
"After the annexation of Dai Viet by its ascendent neighbor to the south, Champa, many feared a forced conversion to Islam and fled north or west to seek shelter from the Song or Ayuthaya. What should we do with this flood of refugees, Son of Heaven?"
A: Shan, we shall shelter them.
+1000 pop. in Wenshan
+1000 pop. in Guangxi
+500 pop. in Hainan
B: Accept only the wealthy and important
+500 pop. in Wenshan
+500 pop. in Guangxi
+20D
C: The Nam Viet are our enemies, not our guests.
Innovative -1
-10 VP
relation w/ Champa +10
And then when Champa has its send missionaries north event (detailed by Ahmed); this should coincide with a weak Song ruler, or the succession crisis of the mid 16th century.
Event name: Muhanmode Arrives
"Son of Heaven, Cham foreigners have entered Tianxia, preaching against your divinity. Their popularity is causing unrest, and the people are not peaceful and satisfied."
A: There is nothing we can do...
Guizhou (1556) converts to Traditional Islam
Revolt risk in Guizhou +1 for 5 years
Revolt risk in Guizohu +1 for 10 years
Ditto revolt risk for Wenshan
-1 Stab
Trigger Wenshan converts event in 5 years
Trigger Hui culture rises event in 10 years
-10 VP
B: React harshly
Revolt risk in Guizhou + 1 for 5 years, +1 for 10 years, and +1 for 15 years
Same revolt risk for Wenshan
-1 Stab
-1 Innovative
-50D
C: Allow the Chams to spread their faith
Guizhou converts to Traditional Islam
-2 Stab
Innovative +1
Revolt risk +1 in Guizhou for 5 years, ditto for Wenshan
Trigger Wenshan converts event and Hui culture event like A.
-------
Event name: "Muhanmode reaches Wenshan"
"Son of Heaven, Cham missionaries have spread their ideas to Wenshan!"
A: There is nothing we can do...
Wenshan converts to Traditional Islam
-1 Stab
-1 Centralization
-10 VP
B: React harshly
#Note that to get here, they must've not reacted harshly above
Revolt risk in Wenshan +1 for 5, 10, 15 years and same for Guizhou
-1 Stab
-25D
-1 Innovative
C: Allow the Chams to spread their faith
Wenshan converts
Revolt risk +1 in Wenshan for 5 years
+1 Innovative
-2 Stab
------
This one comes out mebbe 10-20 years later. "Hui" (回), btw, is Mandarin for "Islam"; I'm just using it for the culture b/c it's what Ahmed was calling it.
Event name: Emergence of Hui culture
"As the years have gone by, the followers of Mohanmude have become more established in the west. The call to prayer is no longer strange to the ears, and the sight of veiled women has become commonplace on the streets of Shunsong."
A: Shan, We shall rule them as well.
Culture in Guizhou and Wenshan changed to Hui (If either one is muslim)
Revolt risk in Guizhou +1. Indefinitely. Same for Wenshan.
Basic tax value in Guizhou -1. Same for Wenshan.
-1 Stab
-------
Then there's a big revolt in two years. 18 months after that, any provinces held by the rebels declare independence as either the Hui Dynasty (回朝) or Hui Kingdom/Sultanate (回國), I don't know; they should be at war with Song. If the rebellion is put down, Song can undo their conversion through an event with a high cost in $$, population, and BTV.
Champa should get an event about whether to recognize and fund the rebels if the Hui are established, or join in the war to conquer for itself and gain serious badboy, or stay out of it completely.
Triggered by Champa annexes Vietnam event:
Event name: Buddhists flee Dai Viet
"After the annexation of Dai Viet by its ascendent neighbor to the south, Champa, many feared a forced conversion to Islam and fled north or west to seek shelter from the Song or Ayuthaya. What should we do with this flood of refugees, Son of Heaven?"
A: Shan, we shall shelter them.
+1000 pop. in Wenshan
+1000 pop. in Guangxi
+500 pop. in Hainan
B: Accept only the wealthy and important
+500 pop. in Wenshan
+500 pop. in Guangxi
+20D
C: The Nam Viet are our enemies, not our guests.
Innovative -1
-10 VP
relation w/ Champa +10
And then when Champa has its send missionaries north event (detailed by Ahmed); this should coincide with a weak Song ruler, or the succession crisis of the mid 16th century.
Event name: Muhanmode Arrives
"Son of Heaven, Cham foreigners have entered Tianxia, preaching against your divinity. Their popularity is causing unrest, and the people are not peaceful and satisfied."
A: There is nothing we can do...
Guizhou (1556) converts to Traditional Islam
Revolt risk in Guizhou +1 for 5 years
Revolt risk in Guizohu +1 for 10 years
Ditto revolt risk for Wenshan
-1 Stab
Trigger Wenshan converts event in 5 years
Trigger Hui culture rises event in 10 years
-10 VP
B: React harshly
Revolt risk in Guizhou + 1 for 5 years, +1 for 10 years, and +1 for 15 years
Same revolt risk for Wenshan
-1 Stab
-1 Innovative
-50D
C: Allow the Chams to spread their faith
Guizhou converts to Traditional Islam
-2 Stab
Innovative +1
Revolt risk +1 in Guizhou for 5 years, ditto for Wenshan
Trigger Wenshan converts event and Hui culture event like A.
-------
Event name: "Muhanmode reaches Wenshan"
"Son of Heaven, Cham missionaries have spread their ideas to Wenshan!"
A: There is nothing we can do...
Wenshan converts to Traditional Islam
-1 Stab
-1 Centralization
-10 VP
B: React harshly
#Note that to get here, they must've not reacted harshly above
Revolt risk in Wenshan +1 for 5, 10, 15 years and same for Guizhou
-1 Stab
-25D
-1 Innovative
C: Allow the Chams to spread their faith
Wenshan converts
Revolt risk +1 in Wenshan for 5 years
+1 Innovative
-2 Stab
------
This one comes out mebbe 10-20 years later. "Hui" (回), btw, is Mandarin for "Islam"; I'm just using it for the culture b/c it's what Ahmed was calling it.
Event name: Emergence of Hui culture
"As the years have gone by, the followers of Mohanmude have become more established in the west. The call to prayer is no longer strange to the ears, and the sight of veiled women has become commonplace on the streets of Shunsong."
A: Shan, We shall rule them as well.
Culture in Guizhou and Wenshan changed to Hui (If either one is muslim)
Revolt risk in Guizhou +1. Indefinitely. Same for Wenshan.
Basic tax value in Guizhou -1. Same for Wenshan.
-1 Stab
-------
Then there's a big revolt in two years. 18 months after that, any provinces held by the rebels declare independence as either the Hui Dynasty (回朝) or Hui Kingdom/Sultanate (回國), I don't know; they should be at war with Song. If the rebellion is put down, Song can undo their conversion through an event with a high cost in $$, population, and BTV.
Champa should get an event about whether to recognize and fund the rebels if the Hui are established, or join in the war to conquer for itself and gain serious badboy, or stay out of it completely.
siafu said:
Just use the existing ranges, which are listed in both the Interregnum Ids file and in the monarch and leader files for the current 'chinas'.
siafu said:
Yes, I can make the shield and flag files if you send me the graphics.
gibsonmathew@yahoo.ca
siafu said:
Don't be limited by what happened IRL. The Muslims in western China could have expanded had they not been so visciously supressed. But, we can also posit that Islamic 'missionaries' arrived in other parts of China after 1200 and were successful there, if we want that.
Here's the Champa thread.
Ahmed also assumes a technological revolution in China which will change their technology groups to latin. This sounds like a great idea, but not coincident with the unification of China.
The unification of China is going to be the unlikely outcome, not the likely one. Players will probably be able to do it, but the AI is not so likely. If it does happen, we need a new shield for China that doesn't have "Ming" on it because it might not be the Ming that unifies China. Or, we either have to have no explicit change of country when one of them conquers Tianxia, or multiple Chinas to convert to-- is that even feasible, technically?
The unification of China is going to be the unlikely outcome, not the likely one. Players will probably be able to do it, but the AI is not so likely. If it does happen, we need a new shield for China that doesn't have "Ming" on it because it might not be the Ming that unifies China. Or, we either have to have no explicit change of country when one of them conquers Tianxia, or multiple Chinas to convert to-- is that even feasible, technically?
Monarch ids
According to the Interregnum IDs file, the range for "Generic Asian Monarchs" is 40801 - 40900. This won't be enough; it could be enough for two Chinas, but not three. It would probably not be good to use these guys either as there will still be "generic" asian monarchs after China is done.
They do, however, have enough reserved space just for leaders.
Does it cause any problems to use ids above 43500?
According to the Interregnum IDs file, the range for "Generic Asian Monarchs" is 40801 - 40900. This won't be enough; it could be enough for two Chinas, but not three. It would probably not be good to use these guys either as there will still be "generic" asian monarchs after China is done.
They do, however, have enough reserved space just for leaders.
Does it cause any problems to use ids above 43500?
siafu said:
Currently we have the chinas mostly set to orthodox, I think. Some playtesters found that the chinas when at latin were tooooo much. We reset them to orthodox tech. I personally think that a unified China ought to remain orthodox tech or, perhaps, go down in tech to muslim.
Country shield/flag systems can be switched via an event command. So, you could have a variety of potential shield/flag sets for the unified China. If you have the graphics, I can make the shields and whomever writes up the events simply designates which one the game is to use. We have this already for Armenia, Burgundy and a few others.
siafu said:
Sorry,
here are the revised ids you need.
40801 to 40900 for Unified China monarchs
43501 to 43550 for Song monarchs
43551 to 43600 for Ming monarchs
43601 to 43650 for Wei monarchs
43650 to 43700 for Ariqid Khanate monarchs
42401 to 42450 for leaders for Araqid Khanate
41401 to 41450 for leaders for Ming
41451 to 41500 for leaders for Song
41501 to 41550 for leaders for Wei
43701 to 43750 for Unified China leaders
If they start as china tech group, and switch to Latin in, say, 1490, would this be equivalent to being orthodox the entire game? Or should they just switch to orthodox from chinese?
siafu said:
Not sure, you'd have to run some tests on that, either in-game or with a calculator.
The latin tech group is the base value.
Costs for orthodox are +10%
Costs for muslim tech group are +20%
Costs for China tech group are +30%
Note that in vanilla, China is muslim tech, not China tech.