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dek_torres

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Original mod post
Link to workshop

Thanks to everyone who has downloaded my mod Ascent of the Hrafn. I am soon moving into phase 2 of the development: new features and stand-alone add-on mods.

I want to make this an open process informed by your opinions, so please consider answering this survey to let me know how much you like these ideas, and which I should prioritise. It should only take 30 seconds or so.
Survey link

I'm fairly new to modding (this was only my 2nd mod, and my first large one), so I will likely need help and advice in this stage to do the bits I have little experience with. If you like my mod and think you have skills to offer, please let me know in the replies. I will then set up a private conversation to discuss in detail.

Features planned
I will be working on these soon and including them within the base mod.
  1. New devil worshipper cult
  2. King's Champion (minor title, not related to the Champions of Miðgarðr), and wars resolved by personal combat (between you and opponent, or between Kings' Champions)
  3. New CB: Sœmðófriðr (war of honour). Can declare war against a foe (rival, or anyone who has an opinion modifier with crime = yes, e.g. someone who murdered your close kin)
Add-ons
These will be sub-mods published separately, which you can use at your own discretion.
  1. The Þingslǫg: a new government type (only for those using the Conclave DLC)
  2. Hrafnsfólcvíg (battle of the ravens): A mid-game crisis aimed at making the game harder
  3. Ragnarök: An end-game crisis

Add ons in depth
1. The Þingslǫg

I am dissatisfied with the standard feudal system the Norse adopt. Christian feudalism was based largely on divine right, and (at least in principle) title dispensation by the Pope. This does not sit well with my new religion, nor Norse culture, where right to rule was based on people's reputation within the clan. Obviously titles were very often inherited, but being a first-born son was certainly no guarantee of taking power, particularly if one was weak or otherwise unsuitable to rule. I am therefore considering the following features:
  • Government type: Þingslǫg (Law of the Assembly), a form of rule where the King is sovereign, but is answerable to the Þing, an assembly of nobles. In lore, this is analogous to the Parliament of England wherein nobles represented their people and brought petitions to the King. In-game, it is largely similar to feudalism except that:
    • Succession laws are different (see below)
    • The council is more difficult to disempower (must have late feudal administration in order to begin to change council laws, greater opinion penalties and flavour events)
    • Petitions and factions must be dealt to keep the Þing happy - any King that goes against the assembly too much will not last long. This will be dealt with through an extended faction mechanic (like CK2+) or maybe just flavour events if we can't get that to work
  • New succession laws / amendments to other succession laws:
    • All titles at Duke or below are limited to gavelkind. (Lore: this is enforced by the King/Emperor to ensure the strength of the Kingdom). As compensation, only dukes and above may be chosen as councillors to Kings.
    • Þingtaka (Assembly Election): default for Kingdoms and Empires. Closest to feudal elective but only councillors may vote, and may only vote for other councillors or members of the liege's dynasty. You can choose a Kauderfingi (chosen heir) which makes that person more likely to be elected.
    • Konungskyn (King's blood): at late feudal administration, you can limit eligible rulers further to only your own dynasty. Controls inheritance, but has a significant opinion malus.
    • Primogeniture: only accessible once you have totally disempowered (abolished) the council.
NB. All of the above is predicated on having the Conclave DLC activated. Those who don't won't be able to use this mod and will stick with original feudal system.

2. Hrafnsfólcvíg (battle of the ravens)
Lore

Centuries have passed since the First Raven reformed the Norse faith, and her/his blood has mingled with those of lesser clans such that Norsemen begin to question the present Oðinshrafn's right to rule over Miðgarðr. New movements emerge to fracture the Beyð faith and challenge the Oðinshrafn. Against this backdrop, a prophet foretells the birth of one who is pure of blood, rightful descendent and carrying the spirit of the First Raven. The Saðhrafn (True Raven) has now arisen, and unites the dissenters in a glorious assault on the corrupt Oðinshrafn.

The idea

I've found playing as the Oðinshrafn is kind of OP. As a reformed Norse Pagan, you already have almost unlimited CBs (conquest), the ability to pillage for gold, faster troop movement (can navigate ships down rivers) and are hard to convert. Add into that the bonuses from being the Oðinshrafn (opinion boosts, raising the Oathsmen, vassalising the holy orders etc.) and the game becomes too easy. I wanted to add in heresies that undermine your power, the ability to be challenged for the Hrafnset, and a mid-game crisis.
  • Powerful new heresies rise around 100 years after the faith is reformed
  • If you are not worthy of the Oðinshrafn position (not Hrafnskind and weak), a powerful faction will fire for a Hrafnskind NPC to be given the position. You can win it back as your next character, but this will carry an opinion penalty
  • The Hrafnsfólcvíg event chain fires around 200 years after the faith is reformed:
    • The prophet's vision foretells the rise of the Saðhrafn
    • A new secret society emerges, which your vassals can join to support the True Raven
    • The Saðhrafn character is created and declares war on you for your highest tier tile and the Hrafnset with his army (scaled to be around half the size of your own). All members of the new society declare independence and join him as allies.

3. Ragnarök
Lore

The year is 1403, as reckoned by the followers of the White Christ. But as the skies rain hellish rocks upon Miðgarðr, the most powerful prophetess in the land declares that the true year is 50 Ragnarökáðr - fifty years before the world ends. Over the next half-century men, birds and beasts are afflicted by unnatural tumours, winters last for decades, and the masses run amok in fear as the very earth rises in furious eruption. The Norse abandon their traditional ways, disregard the bonds of kinship, and sink into a wayward, listless nihilism. Can you hold your lands and dynasty together against the coming doom?

The idea
Obviously this is a play on the game ending in 1453. I want to make the run up to the end a bit more exciting, and less of an anti-climax, and I thought this might be a lore-friendly way of doing that. Although the events are fantastical and ahistorical, those who like realism need not avoid this, read the spoilers below for more details.

  • The Himinnfallr (Skyfall) event chain fires in 1403: a series of small comets hits the earth, with effects on the climate and geology (province modifiers worldwide, natural disaster events continue)
  • A mysterious disease spreads cancer throughout the world at an alarming rate: radioactive fallout from the comet
  • People go... crazy:
    • Revolt risk increases massively for Beyð provinces
    • Characters can choose to fight for the Gods or for Helheim, which grants a CB and opinion penalty against the opposite. Characters declare independence from their liege if they follow the opposite pantheon
    • The Valhölsœkjandi (Seekers of Valhalla) and Helsœkjandi (Seekers of Hell) societies emerges, practicing mass suicides
    • Random events fire, resulting in further chaos

NB. Many of you will want to carry your save into EU4, and this mod won't make that impossible - after all:
The world does not actually end in this mod. It's based upon a comet hitting the earth causing a minor ecological disaster, which is exacerbated by the superstitious fear prevalent in the middle ages. All the events within the mod are explicable through natural phenomena.

So, now that you've read my ideas, please fill in the survey and rate them!
 
Last edited:

spendabuck

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These all seem like really cool ideas for the mod. My only suggestion would be to also allow rulers with the Þingslǫg government type to be able to hold temples without penalty, like Iqta or Monastic Feudal rulers, seeing how the Hrafnset is a secular title as well as a religious one, similarly to the Caliphate.
 

dek_torres

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These all seem like really cool ideas for the mod. My only suggestion would be to also allow rulers with the Þingslǫg government type to be able to hold temples without penalty, like Iqta or Monastic Feudal rulers, seeing how the Hrafnset is a secular title as well as a religious one, similarly to the Caliphate.
I did have a good think about this when you first suggested it, but decided against it (sorry, should have told you my reasons).

Whilst it makes sense because the Hrafnset is a secular ruler, I envisaged her/him as more a figurative and de facto head of the faith, a lay member of the clergy if you like. I don't see her/him actually invested with religious powers like the authority to make incantations, perform the blot. If you want to RP it that way then that's cool, (and you can even edit the mod files to make you able to hold temples if you like too, I can let you know how if you're not sure but it's literally one line) but it's not the way I see it. I think the role of Goði in my lore is much more specialised, and incompatible with being a secular ruler.
 

secretfire

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I'm not so keen on the "only dukes being councillors"; to begin with, most starting small norse kingdoms don't have dukes, or if they do not more then like "a" duke, and many of them are petty kings (dukes themselves) only. I would sooner convert to another religion then have to suffer only dukes as councillors; dukes are invitably worthless, stupid, cowardly ingrates with no skills who want to overthrow you.
 

dek_torres

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I'm not so keen on the "only dukes being councillors"; to begin with, most starting small norse kingdoms don't have dukes, or if they do not more then like "a" duke, and many of them are petty kings (dukes themselves) only. I would sooner convert to another religion then have to suffer only dukes as councillors; dukes are invitably worthless, stupid, cowardly ingrates with no skills who want to overthrow you.
Thanks, that makes perfect sense actually, I thought mainly from my perspective as holding an empire of many dukes, but for smaller realms it would be limiting. What about limiting only to people from the ruling class, i.e. only landed characters?
 

Doukan

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Looks to be coming together nicely, I especially like the new government idea as it's something most mods and paradox themselves haven't really done much with.
Anything in the pipeline for merchant republics?
 

dek_torres

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Looks to be coming together nicely, I especially like the new government idea as it's something most mods and paradox themselves haven't really done much with.
Anything in the pipeline for merchant republics?
Nothing major planned in terms of government type, partly because I've (shockingly) never played as a republic before so I don't know the vanilla systems. I now have a number of merchant vassal though and as the Norse were great traders I want to add more flavour in around my relationship with them. I play with a (slightly personally modified) version of Advanced Trade Systems, so I do get to use tradeposts and might adapt that (with the modders permission of course).

One thing I do want to add is some kind of balancing act between raiding and having merchant vassals: I'm pretty sure a Vinr would be upset about all the Vikings on the seas. A couple of ideas spring to mind:
1) some sort of 'raiding allowed' crown law, with opinion and tax bonuses/penalties. Factions would grow around this. (As the raiding allowance is set in culture and religion files though, I'm not sure how or if this could work).
2) trade zone modifiers for pirates and Vikings
3) raiding defensive buildings for cities, with an attrition penalty for troops set as raiders
This is moving into modding areas I have no experience with, so be good to get some expertise in on this.

Any other suggestions?
 

ngppgn

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Raiding is allowed as soon as your culture and/or government and/or religion allows it, so forbidding it by law is... Quite challenging to say the least.

Changing how succession rules work is quite impossible. Best thing you can do is use events to handle the titles on death to the character you want, but the "current_heir" scope and the portrait of your heir and succession-related tooltips would point to an unintended character.

Best thing to do IMHO is use tanistry which allows appointing a tanist from your dynasty and then use events for the actual succession.

You can use complex conditions to council position's potential. Something meaning
"If there is a suitable non-councillor duke-or-above vassal, then only a duke or above vassals can be councilor of the given position, else if there's a suitable non-councilor count-or-above vassal, only counts or above can get the possition, else only landed characters can get the position. So you have more flexibility for smaller realms and more strictness for big ones.
 

Brods

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This is the most elaborate mod I've seen in a while. Gave some thoughts on the survey.
But to add to that here are some more suggestions:
The new government form; make it so you have to call the Jarls to your banners even when feudal (if at all possible). This fits with the diminished power of the Konung, and the authority of the clans/tribes/ætts. It could be turned into a law that you can pass with some struggle.

And the entry level to the champion order could be Karl instead of Maðr, if you're looking for alternatives for simply "man".
Another overlooked word on war is strið.
Striðsmaðr = soldier
Striðir = enemy, combatant

Some other useful words:
Heiðinn = heathen (the word for Germanic pagans, used in HIP) (I am heiðing, we are heiðinn)
Heiðindómr = land/dominion of Germanic pagans
Heiðr = honor, glory (heiðran = honoring) (heiðrsmaðr - honorable man, highly regarded)

Hirð = army
Hirðmenn = troops

Hersir = commander, general

Heilagr = holy, sacred

Helgir = holy man, saint

Bundinn = bound
Svorinn = sworn
f.ex: eiðsvorinn = oathsworn

An alt. name for Konungskyn could be Bloðsrétt (blood-right) in any case bloð and rétt- could be used in some words where law is concerned

I also think Einherjar should have a place in the ranks, can't get more Norse warrior than that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einherjar
Herja = couse havoc, Herjann = could possible be used for as an alt. for 'Warrior'/'Raider', name of Odin (after Christianization though)

Feel free to ask me if you need some input on anything, would be glad to help where I can. Just send PM. I have a very good Old Norse dictionary which you can't get on the internet, and know a thing or two about Norse society and myth.


Here is a somewhat decent English - Norse dictionary, although you have probably seen it.
http://www.ordbok.com/norron.html

This youtube channel also has a lot of good stuff on Norse language, society and myth
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXCxNFxw6iq-Mh4uIjYvufg/featured

Edit: I recommend checking out the Historical Immersion Project mod, really adds depth to the game, and makes the Norse playthrough better with renamed Norse provinces and titles, more provinces etc. You could also draw some inspiration from its localization files.

Edit2: discard what i said in the survey about the Thinglagr, didn't know it was a new government form. In that case, Things Law/dominion as it translates too, seems like a realistic solution. With some sort of witenagemot of lawmen and nobles. In Norway today we have a huge fylke called Trøndelag, meaning the law or dominion of the Trønder (Norwegian tribe), that stems from Norse government. We also had Gulaþingslǫg and Njarðarlǫg among others. The Ting/assembly of Trøndelag is Frostatinget.

Edit3: About the "Beyð" religion. The word is similair to bid, beg, ask, invite. Possibly related to the scandinavian word bønn, which today means prayer, though i haven't checked that. And if one is a "bidder/asker" you could say he's beiðingi, in general the religion would be called beiðinn (the concept of bidding/requesting)

Edit4: Bønn has the root bón and means favour. "Biðja bónar" f.ex means "to ask a favor"
 
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secretfire

Second Lieutenant
2 Badges
Sep 4, 2014
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
Only landed characters would work. Another way of handling things would be to have some sort of custom dueling mechanic, where people could challenge Councillors for their posts, and you'd have to honor it for some set time. (unless an event/etc. forced them out or they died.)

Would fit in well with your personal combat mod and other mechanics. Hell, perhaps you could even (I doubt it, this sounds hard) - have some way to link the post-reformation religious leadership to the way that one gains leadership of the champions; as in, a temporary leader is appointed and then some sort of event fires where everyone fights for it from among the available heirs in a tournament.