Ascension Perk Elimination

[WhapXI]

If they removed the Level 10 Hard cap on Leader Level then Transcendent Learning would be niche build useful. Maybe if it gave +2 LL, +25% Learn time, and raised the Level cap to 15. That would at least be worth a pick if you are a Leader focused empire.

Not sure why you quoted me but the joke's on you because here comes my trash opinion.

Truth be told I rather like Transcendent Learning. If you're at the endgame with nothing left to pick it's usually solid. It tends to come from few places and there's no repeatable tech for it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

It's even worse with the 2.2 as you now seem to have +leader cap to rulers (domination) and scientists (discovery, from the streams) in the tradition trees along with governors and admirals. This also makes Philosopher King even more pointless, but they may have changed it.

On the bright side, the +25% xp is somewhat useful, maybe if it also let leaders ignore empire size penalties for upkeep/cost? That might turn out to be interesting.

Unless it's changed since DD 129, the traditions available will give you +2 to ruler, admiral, and governor and an extra +1 to all. So that's a base level cap of 6/8. Capacity Boosters gets you to 8/10.

(Of course traditions may be harder to get, so maybe you can't guarantee having all of them anyway in 2.2).

That said, in order to make Transcendent Learning worth it ever Capcaity Boosters needs to go away.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Unless it's changed since DD 129, the traditions available will give you +2 to ruler, admiral, and governor and an extra +1 to all. So that's a base level cap of 6/8. Capacity Boosters gets you to 8/10.

(Of course traditions may be harder to get, so maybe you can't guarantee having all of them anyway in 2.2).

That said, in order to make Transcendent Learning worth it ever Capcaity Boosters needs to go away.

In one of the streams they hovered over an updated discovery tree that showed +2 to scientist cap as well. Obviously, final numbers are not final, so who knows what will happen on release. Egalitarians have a hard time picking up selected lineages/capacity boosters. That being said, they can just slap on the +1 cap/+1 pool civic.

 

[Tavior]

Executive Vigor: 20
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 10 (+1)
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 12
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 9
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18 (-2)

I picked PSI since it was often always a lottery with lot of energy gamble that didn't worked out. The other 2 ascension paths were often straight up better RoI even partially done.

 

[bunkerman]

Executive Vigor: 20
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 9
One Vision: 6
Shared Destiny: -1 (-2) ELIMINATED
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13 (+1)
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 9
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 20

new day new vote:
Master builders: cause its good to build all the habitats and wonders faster especially with even more wonders coming
Shared Destiny: i stated already why i dont think its good and its been too long without a perk getting killed so here we go

 

[Pointyearedgit]

I hardly ever use actual subjects given that their AI struggle pretty bad with invasion and other stuff that AI are notorious bad at.

I usually only limit myself to primitive ones and integrate, if I don't go for purge/exterminate, those at full cost which is not much anyway.

Tavior, take off the quote code and repost your vote, the next guy couldn’t see what you did. You will have to vote down something else.

 

[Tavior]

Tavior, take off the quote code and repost your vote, the next guy couldn’t see what you did. You will have to vote down something else.

Done.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Executive Vigor: 20
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 10 (+1)
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 9
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18 (-2)

Not my vote, but posted down here for clarity, and added 1 more to master builders (from bunkerman) to keep it fair (even though I'm the one whose been voting it down ).

 

[starcitizen0606]

Can we get another post evaluating roleplay value rather than victory in Stellaris? I d like to see people's view of how much immersive the ascension perk could

 

[bunkerman]

sorry for causing a mess. assumed it was a response to previous score changes from it being in quotes so went back a page to see last legitimate post. glad it got sorted out in the end

 

[John Rusher]

Executive Vigor: 20
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 10 (+1)
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 9
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18 (-2)

Not my vote, but posted down here for clarity, and added 1 more to master builders (from bunkerman) to keep it fair (even though I'm the one whose been voting it down ).

Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18

Die, Galactic Contender, Die. Also, robots op pls nerf.

 

[Atreides]

Day 2 post

Imperial Prerogative: 13 (+1)
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18

Sectors are annoying, having a few more planets to manage expands game play.

Biological Ascension is viable - but the micro involved is so bad that the pick is unplayable.

 

[Enska]

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 21 (+1)
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 15 (-2)
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18

Interstellar dominion is one of the best early picks.

Grasp the void is rather meh in the current game balance.

 

[Spartakus]

As others, I'll avoid revoting for the same things for now.

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 22 (+1)
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 6
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 13 (-2)
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 18

Interstellar Dominion is to me the single best choice for a first pick as it let's you snowball faster early on.
And "Meh" is the correct term for Grasp the Void. If you want those 4 starbases to do something you also have to throw a ton of minerals at them first.

 

[Doctor Bones]

Day 2 (yay):

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 22
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 4 (-2)
Technological Ascendancy: 27
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 13
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 19 (+1)

One Vision simply doesn't give a big enough buff to make it worth an ascension point. (And it's kinda boring)
Psionic Ascension gives immunity to machine infiltration, better leaders and pops, great buffs and the covenant of desire. Also, the end of the cycle if you want to (and can) win quickly.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 23 (+1)
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 4
Technological Ascendancy: 25 (-2)
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 13
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 19

Technological Ascendancy is getting way too overvalued. Picking the correct techs to research and controlling the decks appropriately is much much better for getting the key techs. Tech is still not a genuine path to victory in Stellaris, having the most stuff is still far far better, and just maximising your research bonus is not even the best way to get the techs you do need.

Remember each ship tech level is only a 30% increase over the previous one, and numerical advantage is much much more powerful. Better expansion is better.

 

[zukodark]

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 23
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 2(-2)
Technological Ascendancy: 25
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 21(+1)
Grasp the Void: 13
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 19

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 23
Mastery of Nature: 10
One Vision: 0 (-2)
Technological Ascendancy: 25
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 21
Grasp the Void: 13
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 18 (+1)
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 7
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 19

Shared Destiny has been added to the graveyard.

Out of the remainder, One Vision is the worst- a mostly irrelevant bonus to government attraction and a small boost to unity isn't worth picking so it's off to the graveyard as well!

GFC gets a promotion for being a solid way to get your empire on a war footing in the midgame. The boost to fleet size and naval cap is just very very handy in almost every situation.

Eliminated
21. One Vision
22. Shared Destiny
23. Consecrated Worlds
24. Enigmatic Engineering
25. Synthetic Age
26. Nihilistic Acquisition

E: Added wrong score for GFC. Fixed now.

 

[Maverikfreak]

Galactic Force Projection: 19 (+2)

Why you add +2 and not +1?

 

[Zohtun]

Day 2

Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 23
Mastery of Nature: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 25
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 21
Grasp the Void: 13
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 18
Machine Worlds: 13
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 5 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 12 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 17
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 19

Kinda sad Shared Destiny died so horribly. I had a game recently where I controlled a LOT of vassal space and shared Destiny was the difference between a 10 year integration time and a 1 year integration time.

Situational but when you need it, it does what it advertises REALLY WELL.

Anyway firing some shots at Galactic contender because of its overall niche use (fight FE's slightly sooner or an early-awakened Empire slightly less crappy!) and giving a prop up to bio ascension because of how much fun I can have turning rebellious species into neutered dying stapled slugs. The RP value is one I just love.

Also reduced the count on Galactic force projection by 1 to correct the error that @Jmes Snowscoran made for the next poster.