Ascension Perk Elimination

[Secret Master]

There is only the mineral edict now. The fleet one is an Ambition.

But doesn't Executive Vigor also affect Unity Ambitions, including Omniferous Acquisition? Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I could have sworn anything affecting edict length also affects the Unity Ambitions.

If I'm wrong, then I concede my point completely.

 

[GloatingSwine]

But doesn't Executive Vigor also affect Unity Ambitions, including Omniferous Acquisition? Maybe I'm hallucinating, but I could have sworn anything affecting edict length also affects the Unity Ambitions.

If I'm wrong, then I concede my point completely.

It does.

But Unity is much much easier to get than influence, and has no competing uses once all valuable traditions are unlocked.

 

[Azhcristokos]

Consecrated Worlds: 5 (-2)
Executive Vigor: 19 (+1)
Imperial Prerogative: 14
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 13
One Vision: 14
Shared Destiny: 12
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 18
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 14
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 20
---

Consecrated Worlds adds a few minor bonuses for a long time. It costs a bunch of influence and has to be applied planet by planet. This has little to offer except roleplay value.

Executive Vigor lets you get a lot more use out of edicts. Early on, when your influence and energy are very, very precious, you will reap potentially powerful bonuses from edicts at a greatly reduced final cost (because you have to re-enact the edicts less often).

Funnily enough, Executive Vigor complements Consecrated Worlds by tacking on another 50 years to the edict, which is awesome, but the latter perk's bonuses are still not worth the opportunity cost outside of roleplaying.

 

[Secret Master]

It does.

But Unity is much much easier to get than influence, and has no competing uses once all valuable traditions are unlocked.

Then I stand by my statements.

There are empires that might not be generating tons of unity that might benefit from running Unity Ambitions for longer periods of time.

 

[Zohtun]

New
Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 14
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11 (-2)
One Vision: 14
Shared Destiny: 12
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 18
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 15 (+1)
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 20


There's actually a couple I may keep showing up to put points into, but for this post, I'm just putting some into the only way to get a total-war CB if you're not a Purger or fighting one. I rather tend to find myself dying for influence (probably because I play on larger maps) so not having to claim everything is something I will murder (other empires) for.

Tanking MoN because for what you get it's really draining on aforementioned always-depleted influence. Oh boy I got 1 extra tile for my planet whoop de frigging doo. (Unless I colonised/invaded a crummy planet in which case it's probably worth more effort to just move the pops to another planet and abandon the lousy thing to its new fate as ruins for some later generation of starnations to study).

 

[Badesumofu]

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 12 (-2)
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11
One Vision: 14
Shared Destiny: 12
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 18
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16 (+1)
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 20

Getting Total War is one of the single biggest boosts you can get. Influence-free expansion gives you both the benefit of expanding freely and that you can then use your influence for edicts. It's amazing, and especially given the set criteria for the vote. Being big gives you the win condition, and it makes crushing the crisis much easier.

IP is really quite weak. As stated above it amounts to 5 more outliner slots which makes it only a convenience, not worth much in terms of power. People realise that sector tax stays within your empire, right? The sector governors use those resources to upgrade buildings and maintain stuff. You can drain the sector stockpile for nearly free when you bait an FE into attacking, and for a modest cost at other times. Its value is very, very marginal.

 

[Archon87]

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11
One Vision: 12 (-2)
Shared Destiny: 12
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 16 (+1)
Voidborne: 18
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 13
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 20

Hmm, things aren't going exactly as I would have predicted with this contest, though the eliminations are no real surprise at this point.

Transcendent Learning is surprisingly useful, considering how many bonuses a high level leader imparts. If you stack this perk with a long lived species, a fast learner species, or a machine race, then you'll be able to reap those high level benefits more consistently. The +2 leader capacity is nice in the mid-game and late-game too, since you'll likely have many governors, admirals and a general or too, especially if you're going wide.

One Vision is kind of pointless, honestly. Increasing unity production is only useful for unlocking more traditions, and thus more perks. Which you've just squandered one of the precious few you have to take this one. Dumb. Plus, ethics attraction isn't that big of a bonus. It makes managing your factions a bit easier, but that's all. It just makes this perk even less useful when playing a gestalt.

 

[Badesumofu]

Transcendent Learning is surprisingly useful, considering how many bonuses a high level leader imparts. If you stack this perk with a long lived species, a fast learner species, or a machine race, then you'll be able to reap those high level benefits more consistently. The +2 leader capacity is nice in the mid-game and late-game too, since you'll likely have many governors, admirals and a general or too, especially if you're going wide.

I find I can get to level 10 leaders without this, and as it doesn't give an experience gain boost, this perk doesn't really help get them faster. The +2 leaders is marginal - beyond a certain point I tend to land on about 2 governors (although I sometimes go above this just because putting 100 planets into one sector makes the planets screen unusable) about 5 scientists, and all the rest admirals. Generals are pretty useless.

I like the idea of the perk, and I took it in my first game after it was implemented, but in practice I find it very marginal.

 

[Talanic]

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11
One Vision: 10 (-2)
Shared Destiny: 12
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 18
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14 (+1)
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 20

One Vision dropped down because, as has been said, spending one of your rare ascension perks for a very slim boost to your unity output is mediocre at best. With the number of unity output boosts, 10% is barely felt. On top of that, though, One Vision is actively harmful to some playstyles. If you want to change your governing ethics at any later point in the game, One Vision (and the other Governing Ethics Attraction boosters) can make an already difficult-to-the-point-of-obnoxiousness task into a functionally impossible one.

Master Builders boosted because it represents a fork in the game. Either you pick it up after getting Galactic Wonders, in which case you get it to speed up your megastructure production. Or you get it after Voidborne to boost your habitat game - or to transition from habitats to megastructures. Though the result is similar, there's different approaches for why you would want its benefits. More of the ascension perks should have that kind of versatility.

 

[Silens]

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 12
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11
One Vision: 10
Shared Destiny: 10 (-2)
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 18
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21 (+1)

New day, new luck. Today I want to curb Shared Destiny. You may have noticed with my earlier choice of the Colossus Project that I tend to expand not by integrating vassals. A few small ones are there for the unity bonus, everything else gets captured and purged. Or gets a nice sweep. The point is, Colossus gives you a 100% influence discount and instant annexation. So while Shared Destiny is useful for certain play styles, for me it is not.

But I almost always elevate my empire through Psionics, as it is a good bonus overall and applies instantly. And it can get you great boons in the lottery, such as an early Avatar or reduced upkeep (which is crazy if your fleet is big enough). So i want to give my point to Psionic Ascension.

 

[Sweawm]

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 10 (-2)
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11
One Vision: 10
Shared Destiny: 10 (-2)
Technological Ascendancy: 21
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 19 (+1)
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21

 

[Atreides]

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 10
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 11
One Vision: 8 (-2)
Shared Destiny: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 22 (+1)
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 19
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 16
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21

Hopefully the devs are able to use this thread as a starting point for a balance pass on the entire Ascension Perk system.

Taking a 'rare' perk to slightly increase your speed to get later perks is just bad efficiency. there is a stack of mostly useless perks, and One Vision is definitely one of them.

As for Technological Ascendancy, I have not doubt there are games where I have NOT taken that as my first perk. I just don't remember them.

 

[Kayden_II]

Just to mention, I like the idea behind this, but it's probably the case, that I wouldn't allow 01. to release more than 1 answer per forum-member and 02. to eliminate the a-perks since I would simply count the votes (to prevent "premature" a-perk-eliminations, because the "wrong" forum-members had voted - firstly).

 

[zukodark]

Just to mention, I like the idea behind this, but it's probably the case, that I wouldn't allow 01. to release more than 1 answer per forum-member and 02. to eliminate the a-perks since I would simply count the votes (to prevent "premature" a-perk-eliminations, because the "wrong" forum-members had voted - firstly).

01 - With only 1 answer per forum member it would die out quite quickly. Even if more people come later, the thread would already fallen into obscurity.
02 - It wouldn't really be an elimination if you couldn't eliminate the perks. Wouldn't people just continue downvoting previous perks? Even if you ban downvoting previous perks as well, the elimination would last much longer since people could just continue upvoting a dead perk for eternity.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Round two:

Consecrated Worlds: 5
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 10
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 9 (-2)
One Vision: 8
Shared Destiny: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 22
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 19
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 17 (+1)
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21


Mastery of Nature is far too swingeing a benefit for a per-planet influence cost. It's a terrible way to turn influence into empire size/production. (Consecrated Worlds has the same problems for much more cost but is also niche, whereas MoN is bad for everyone so its badness matters more).

Galactic Force Projection, when taken as the third perk, adds slightly more than two starbases full of fleet capacity just about as the midgame starts when that's still a reasonable proportion of what you're likely to have, and it's instant and doesn't require any extra costs or time like is competitor Grasp the Void. That means that by the time you'd have the same amount of cap with GTV you've filled what GFP gave you with more corvettes and can use them for a renewed midgame campaign.

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Just to mention, I like the idea behind this, but it's probably the case, that I wouldn't allow 01. to release more than 1 answer per forum-member and 02. to eliminate the a-perks since I would simply count the votes (to prevent "premature" a-perk-eliminations, because the "wrong" forum-members had voted - firstly).

The changes you you suggest would make this a normal poll rather than an elimination game. Regarding premature perk elimination, that's why they get a starting score to buffer against fluke downvoting- but as you can see from this thread, the first perks to be eliminated are a consensus opinion of what constitutes the trash tier.

 

[Spartakus]

Really interesting thread. I'll join in if I may (even if I'm by no means an expert here)

Consecrated Worlds: 3 (-2)
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 11 (+1)
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 9
One Vision: 8
Shared Destiny: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 22
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 19
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21

Consecrated Worlds: Another thing I can spend those precious influence on? No thanks. Even for roleplaying It's not worth the costs, even if it wasn't behind an ascension perk.
Imperial Perogative: I'm fully aware that this is a choice below par. It get's a vote from solely for making me avoid those blasted sector mechanics for a while longer (or for the more important worlds). Sure, there are better perks, but none that keeps screaming at me like this when I don't take it.

 

[Doctor Bones]

Consecrated Worlds: 1 (-2)
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 11
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 9
One Vision: 8
Shared Destiny: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 22
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 20 (+1)
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 13
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21

For all the reasons stated above, I've never once taken consecrated world except for roleplay purposes.

I always seem to take Voidborne, simply for the great strength you can amass in a few secure systems. This works exceptionally well with a total war CB like a colossus.

 

[Maverikfreak]

Consecrated Worlds: 1
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 11
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 9
One Vision: 8
Shared Destiny: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 22
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 11 (-2)
Galactic Force Projection: 18 (+1)
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21

Galactic force proyection: If you want to win you need a big fleet and many resources, both of them are a problem when you hit the naval cap, this ascension is gonna save you easily from many problems.

Eternal vigilance: In vanilla Stellaris the defensive plataform roles are just a little support to your fleet in a defensive position, even if you focus hard on them, they are only a little help, and 100% defensive, if you want to win, you need to be fully offensive, and spend resources on mobile units, not on static defenses, who in the best cases only delays a little the weaker enemies. In the early game they can work but you dont need the bonus to make use of them and in late game they are just waste of resources.

 

[WhiteKyubey]

Consecrated Worlds: 1
Executive Vigor: 19
Imperial Prerogative: 11
Interstellar Dominion: 20
Mastery of Nature: 9
One Vision: 8
Shared Destiny: 10
Technological Ascendancy: 22
Transcendent Learning: 16
Voidborne: 20
Grasp the Void: 17 (+1)
Eternal Vigilance: 11
Galactic Force Projection: 16 (-2)
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 17
Colossus Project: 16
Defender of the Galaxy: 14
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 14
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 16
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 21

If you want some more naval cap as 2-3 perk, go for GV instead of GFP! You get up to 180 cap instead of 80 here. Sure, it will cost some minerals, but these 5 starbased could be useful in wars as well.