Ascension Perk Elimination

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

You cant tell this is only argument. Unique powerfull techs, boons from shroud, covenants, happy pop etc, it can be random, but you cant say it is not a competition for synths.

It's not a competition for synths. In fact, it could use some mid-game power boosts.

I'm sorry that you don't like my analysis, and I'm sorry that I didn't find your argument of "I like psi more *smiley face* to be compelling, but that's your problem.

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Interstellar Dominion: 26 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 5 (-2)

Nearing the end of the cycle here. I expect ID to take the crown.

Synthetic Ascension isn't a bad runner-up. With regards to what has been said about driven assimilators being the strongest in the current meta, I'll refer to my aforementioned mechanist play into SA, which appropriates the features that make DA strong (double pop growth from the start, ability to assimilate conquered bio pops) while still being a baseline organic empire with access to normal diplomacy, unlike DA which is usually hated by all non-machine empires.

 

[Halatung]

Interstellar Dominion: 24 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 6 (+1)

 

[Vonuggbin]

Interstellar Dominion: 25 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 4 (-2)

 

[Archael90]

It's not a competition for synths. In fact, it could use some mid-game power boosts.

I'm sorry that you don't like my analysis, and I'm sorry that I didn't find your argument of "I like psi more *smiley face* to be compelling, but that's your problem.

This isnt analysis xD You are just trying to justify your dislike. I have no problem with your opinion, i have a problem with your arguments, bcs they are false, and as i said, boons from shroud are random, but psi ascension gives unique technology, powerfull bonusses from covenant, and more happy, and united pops, and you can deny this advantages (but you are trying and this is making me angry - you are trying to make arguments to fit your statement regardles of being they true or not while you should makes statements bcs of true arguments).

 

[Sheriff Godwin Law]

This isnt analysis xD You are just trying to justify your dislike.

Okay. Cool story.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Synthetic Ascension isn't a bad runner-up. With regards to what has been said about driven assimilators being the strongest in the current meta, I'll refer to my aforementioned mechanist play into SA, which appropriates the features that make DA strong (double pop growth from the start, ability to assimilate conquered bio pops) while still being a baseline organic empire with access to normal diplomacy, unlike SA which is usually hated by all non-machine empires.

Although people naturally assume Mechanist and Synthetic Ascension synergise, that's maybe not so true.

Mechanist and The Flesh is Weak synergise well, but the ideal thing to do is stop there and once you research Synthetics/Synthetic Personality Matrix flip your populations so you have an overclass of Synths working research, energy, and unity, and stuff the meatbags down the mines where their remaining squishy appendages can get into the little crevasses to get the minerals out and take advantage of the slavery bonuses.


Anyway:

Interstellar Dominion: 26 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 2 (-2)

Most empires will pick ISD first. Get ahead early, then use your lead to get more ahead.

 

[Methone]

Allow me to strike the final blow.

Interstellar Dominion: 27 (+1) WINNER
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 0 (-2)

ID is useful for literally everyone. Spiritualists and Gestalts can't use Synth Ascension, which costs a LOT of tech and research points anyhow.

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Although people naturally assume Mechanist and Synthetic Ascension synergise, that's maybe not so true.

Mechanist and The Flesh is Weak synergise well, but the ideal thing to do is stop there and once you research Synthetics/Synthetic Personality Matrix flip your populations so you have an overclass of Synths working research, energy, and unity, and stuff the meatbags down the mines where their remaining squishy appendages can get into the little crevasses to get the minerals out and take advantage of the slavery bonuses.

I've come to recognize and agree with that. There's little reason to rush the last half of the ascension in the specific mechanist case, especially while you can still make good use of the double pop growth.

 

[Archael90]

Spiritualists can use cybernetics xD

But i think that elimination have ended... so... what now? conclusions?
ID is OP and have to be nerfed, but Nihilistic aquisition needs buff, rest is somewhere between

 

[Dracoknight]

Well this was fun boys, so when are we going to get the aftermath reports?

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Final Ranking
1. Interstellar Dominion
2. Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution)
3. Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence)
4. Galactic Wonders
5. Voidborne
6. Master Builders
7. Technological Ascendancy
8. Executive Vigor
9. World Shaper
10. Colossus Project
11. Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery)
12. Galactic Force Projection
13. Machine Worlds
14. Transcendent Learning
15. Defender of the Galaxy
16. Mastery of Nature
17. Grasp the Void
18. Imperial Prerogative
19. Eternal Vigilance
20. Galactic Contender
21. One Vision
22. Shared Destiny
23. Consecrated Worlds
24. Enigmatic Engineering
25. Synthetic Age
26. Nihilistic Acquisition

Thanks to everyone who's been playing, especially those who have taken the trouble to monitor the running tally for errors and inconsistencies. Thanks also to everyone who participated in a vigorous yet (mostly) civil balance debate which I think has been fairly productive overall. I know I've come out of it with a few new insights at least.

For closing thoughts:

1. Megastructures and "tall" play seems to have a lot of fans.
2. People -really- don't like nihilistic acquisition.
3. Grasp the Void didn't deserve to go so early.
4. Bio Ascension probably suffers from disuse due to (perceived) micro requirements and hence not enough supporters that can help it survive in a game like this.
5. Transcendent Learning ranking almost as high as Galactic Force Projection is a travesty

 

[sortulv]

For closing thoughts:

1. Megastructures and "tall" play seems to have a lot of fans.
2. People -really- don't like nihilistic acquisition.
3. Grasp the Void didn't deserve to go so early.
4. Bio Ascension probably suffers from disuse due to (perceived) micro requirements and hence not enough supporters that can help it survive in a game like this.
5. Transcendent Learning ranking almost as high as Galactic Force Projection is a travesty

1. "Tall" play does have the advantage that you get traditions/research a lot faster.
2. Anyone who actually wanted that kind of play would take the civic. Also, it doesn't really help winning in any way...
4. It has the problem of being like cyborgs only not as good?
5. Transcendent Learning does help in a lot of areas. But I note that it beat the perk that actually is intended to help against crisis - which for this exact scenario should perhaps have scored a little higher (if it had any good balance).

 

[Badesumofu]

I've come to recognize and agree with that. There's little reason to rush the last half of the ascension in the specific mechanist case, especially while you can still make good use of the double pop growth.

I always keep a population of organics around after completing the ascension to keep the benefits of double pop growth. They grow absurdly fast in fact because of all the food that’s now not being eaten.

 

[Badesumofu]

1. "Tall" play does have the advantage that you get traditions/research a lot faster.
2. Anyone who actually wanted that kind of play would take the civic. Also, it doesn't really help winning in any way...
4. It has the problem of being like cyborgs only not as good?
5. Transcendent Learning does help in a lot of areas. But I note that it beat the perk that actually is intended to help against crisis - which for this exact scenario should perhaps have scored a little higher (if it had any good balance).

1. Wide is far better at research and can still easily get all the useful traditions and run all the useful ambitions.
5. It’s pretty easy to get level 10 leaders without TL. Since TL also doesn’t help you get them any faster it’s basically useless.

 

[GloatingSwine]

4. Bio Ascension probably suffers from disuse due to (perceived) micro requirements and hence not enough supporters that can help it survive in a game like this.

Micro requirements are part of it.

I also think the fact that you have to do a special project every bloody time you want to modify pops, and you can't do it on the kind of granular level optimisation needs, make people shy away from it. Society research isn't the most useful endgame because the repeatables aren't great, but it still pauses other kind of progress for a quite expensive project every time which feels bad)

Also most of the way it gets to be nearly the best at the thing that matters the most is that it makes slightly better slaves. It's the slaves that are good, not the ascension.

The only empires that can do practical per tile optimsiation are machines because they can just freely delete pops and build the ones they want. (And it's still annoying, and it barely helps because they have so few other good bonuses and machine traits are weaker because they're designed to be bolted on to +20% inherent for synths).

 

[pryr]

1. Megastructures and "tall" play seems to have a lot of fans.

Interstellar dominion have a first place so i think i have nothing to do with "Tall" and people just like Megastructures as vanity projects. Or tend to overrate it value for wide empires.

 

[bunkerman]

kinda expected this result since ID had more points than synths and psi combined for a a long time and there are people who hate one of the ascensions wholeheartedly and would vote it down no matter what while ID thanks to not being exculusionary and mostly really helpful doesnt get nearly as much negative sentiments as something that you have to take instead of your favorite ascension. personally would prefer ID to be 2nd or 3rd but i guess not a big deal what i find more surprising is how high did executive vigor galactic force projection and defender of the galaxy end up personally would rate each of them 3-4 places below where they ended also really surprised that synthetic age got eliminated right after nihilistic like i dont thing its great or anything but definitely more useful than enigmatic engineering, consecrated worlds shared destiny and most likely also one vision galactic contender and eternal vigilance

 

[GloatingSwine]

1. Wide is far better at research and can still easily get all the useful traditions and run all the useful ambitions.

Wide is better at traditions, because every planet is an opportunity to build another set of unity producing buildings, and every habitat is a colony that can't produce unity effectively. Until you get very large indeed you'll add more unity per planet than you add cost, and by the time you get to the point your costs are going up more than your production you'll have all the traditions you really need.

For science it's a lot closer because the habitat science building is still good. (But as I've noted a number of times, speed of science progress is less important than people claim, beelining the right techs is much much more so)

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Spiritualists can use cybernetics xD

But i think that elimination have ended... so... what now? conclusions?
ID is OP and have to be nerfed, but Nihilistic aquisition needs buff, rest is somewhere between

ID isn’t the most powerful or OP perk, it’s not even always the right pick. It just happens to be the most useful for many empires, it doesn’t need a nerf, some other perks need a buff.

Wide is better at traditions, because every planet is an opportunity to build another set of unity producing buildings, and every habitat is a colony that can't produce unity effectively. Until you get very large indeed you'll add more unity per planet than you add cost, and by the time you get to the point your costs are going up more than your production you'll have all the traditions you really need.

For science it's a lot closer because the habitat science building is still good. (But as I've noted a number of times, speed of science progress is less important than people claim, beelining the right techs is much much more so)

Yea ... no. The monument from the artist enclave throws this analysis out the window.