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Enska

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Interstellar Dominion: 24 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 11 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 8
 

AlanC9

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I think you make a fair point, but I can't entirely agree with you. One reason is that while you can certainly play without ID, it doesn't mean you should. I think one of the biggest reasons people play without ID, but always pick an ascension path, is that the benefits of ID are not as immediately apparent as those of the ascensions, nor is it as fun a bonus. The second reason is that you need to pick one of the perks that require no other perks to have been picked, and your options here are very limited. Many of them are really bad outside roleplaying. Out of your options from the perks you HAVE to pick one of, ID is by far the best one. That's why I feel it should be number one, because everything after that you can argue about, but unless you're doing something wacky even though it is sub-optimal, ID should be in the build.

Well, again, "sub-optimal" depends on what we're optimizing for. If it's beating a 5x crisis or an early crisis, then, yeah, ID probably has to be in the mix. Usually it'll depend on galaxy settings.
 
Last edited:

qer

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Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9(-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 9(+1)

I admit that Synthetic Ascension is a much better pick due to consistency. But I'm giving the point to psionic due to the ability to middle finger the whole galaxy though the End of the cycle. And it is not a bad pick for a covenant: the huge boost it gives makes winning the game in the timeframe it provides actually viable, as long as you win before everything goes south
 

ffsffs1

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Interstellar Dominion: 25 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 7 (-2)

ISD should be the first pick of every build designed to achieve victory quickly and/or survive the crisis.

The other two perks suffer a lot from not being available to assimilatiors and swarms (two of the best builds for achieving the conditions in the OP). Downvoting psionic instead of synthetic, since synthetic is better for empires that are not locked out of such perks.
 

Iron Spirit

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Interstellar Dominion: 26 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 7
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 5 (-2)

+1 ID for obvious reasons. and although I think Psi ascension is more fun, Synth is just better overall.
 

Archael90

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Interstellar Dominion: 24 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 8
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 4 (+1)

I never used claims, once i want to war i already have collosus, or i play as pacifist, so ID gives me only half of its power, and another half is not worth ascension slot, way better option is ascension path, and between Psi, and Synth, I like Psi more :)
Im not saying that ID is bad, im saing that I (personally) dont like it, and way more i like Psi ascension :)
 

Iron Spirit

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I made a mistake editing my post accidentally taking away 2 points from Synth Ascension

The list as it should be now:

Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 10
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 4
 

D Inqu

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Interstellar Dominion: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 11
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 4

-2 for ID for obvious reasons.
 

Ur-Quan Lord 13

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I'll go ahead and cast my first vote...

Interstellar Dominion: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 5 (+1)
 

Siri

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@bunkerman I will defer to your extensive experience in the area then, I mostly base it on my lifeseeded no robot games which felt like a reasonable starting point for a comparison.

I play without ascension paths here and there, sometimes just because I feel my race should not be able to ascend for whatever reason, and sometimes because I just don't generate enough unity because it goes against my idea of the empire. The first part does come fairly early, yes, but at that point ID has already accomplished so much because early economic advantages are just that big. That is unless you're playing on really low tech costs, then it clearly hasn't had time to do much yet but it's such a special case and I'm not even convinced it works against ID because lower tech costs means higher income faster, which makes influence being the expansion limiter more pronounced.
I did mention genociders as a possible exception to picking ID, but ID is still solid even for them just because it allows you to activate more edicts. That's even though the benefits of the perk falls off to 0% when you can no longer expand without war, just because early benefits matter that much. It's certainly weaker at that point, but it's still not terrible. Playing a genocidal empire also has other drawbacks that works against your expansion plans, depending on how much of a threat AI empires are to you with your settings. You also can't ignore the benefits of other government types as they relate to expansion. Any regular empire can be a xenophobe, which makes outposts cheaper. Fanatic Egalitarian is very good for expansion too, simply because it provides you with a very easy to please faction early, and improved influence from that faction, for an easy +3 influence which is a pretty insane boost early in the game. Mechanists for early robots to more quickly move into droids which allows you to more efficiently colonise more planets sooner. Rapid expansion is the game, but there are many ways to play it.

I don't think any of those three things are real to the extent that it makes much of a difference. Slower traditions, because you still have to pick a tier 0 perk, and it will still be the best one unless it's so slow that you can get Voidborne without holding the perk for a significant amount of time. A more crowded galaxy just shifts the use more towards the claim cost reduction rather than the outpost cost reduction. Being boxed in, because being boxed in by something you either can't bypass or kill fairly early is quite rare. I almost never encounter it even though I regularly play on below default hyperlane density. I also know a lot of people who just restart the game if they get boxed in really badly. A lot of the aliens you can just move around, even some of the leviathans, and build on the other side. If it's an AI empire you can also go through their territory and build somewhere else unless they closed their borders off, which is something you can affect against most empire types. Is it possible to construct a scenario where ID performs poorly? Absolutely. The same can be done for ascension perks. In this scenario your neighbours are all spiritualists, and you turning your pops into cyborgs gave them the additional opinion malus required for them all to declare war on you.

There's also the part where the ascension paths are actually two perks, not just one. We were instructed to evaluate their strength based on it taking up two perks and as such have to cut the total benefit into two.

Well, again, "sub-optimal" depends on what we're optimizing for. If it's beating a 5x crisis or an early crisis, then, yeah, ID probably has to be in the mix. Usually it'll depend on galaxy settings.

To an extent, yes. If we use what is in the original post and also what the thread creator said a few pages back that the goal is to win the game, and beat the crisis, and do so on a setting that provides the player some challenge, I think you want ID an overwhelming amount of the time. Personally I wouldn't mind it if the remaining three ended up as a tie just because of the mutually exclusive nature of the two ascension paths, and unless you're doing something quirky you'll want ID + one of the two nearly 100% of the time. Something has to win though :D

(Also, I'm a big fan of your signature)
 

Spartakus

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Hey guys, you overlooked my vote from yesterday. I would love to correct it but Voidborn is already eliminated. Please check after voting if you've been ninja'd

Interstellar Dominion: 23 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 3 (-2)
 

Badesumofu

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Hey guys, you overlooked my vote from yesterday. I would love to correct it but Voidborn is already eliminated. Please check after voting if you've been ninja'd

Interstellar Dominion: 23 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 3 (-2)

I had a look back to page 25 to find your last vote. From what I can see your downvote of Voidborne was not overlooked, but your upvote for ID was overlooked. By my reckoning then ID should have a point added to it now to correct this. I did look to see if it was corrected later on but it doesn’t seem to have been.

So the current totals should now read:

Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 3
 

Spartakus

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I had a look back to page 25 to find your last vote. From what I can see your downvote of Voidborne was not overlooked, but your upvote for ID was overlooked. By my reckoning then ID should have a point added to it now to correct this. I did look to see if it was corrected later on but it doesn’t seem to have been.

So the current totals should now read:

Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 9
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 3

I stand corrected, thank you!
 

Maverikfreak

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Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 5 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 5 (+1)

A suggestion for the op: Make a new thread with the final list so we can have a clean space to discuss the results.
 

sortulv

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Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 6 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 3 (-2)

As fun as psionics can be, the cyborgs tend to be more efficient.
 

Sheriff Godwin Law

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Interstellar Dominion: 24
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 7 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 1 (-2)

Intersteller Dominion is nice, but mid and end game techs make it redundant for anything but rapid expansion in the early stages. The benefits that SA give to are awesome from the moment you grab them and until the last enemy race is forcefully assimilated. Psionic Ascension is a random mess and the only compelling argument for it against the two remainders are "I can flip off the galaxy by losing."
 

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Interstellar Dominion: 25 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 7
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): -1 (-2)

Pisonic Ascension is now dead!
 

Archael90

Field Marshal
18 Badges
Nov 30, 2017
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[...]the only compelling argument for it against the two remainders are "I can flip off the galaxy by losing."
You kidding? I know that you personally dislikes psi ascension, and i dont have a problem with this, but pls dont make false statements (I personally dont like synth ascension, but im not lying that this is worst, or less competetive than psi, its just personal feeling) xD
You cant tell this is only argument. Unique powerfull techs, boons from shroud, covenants, happy pop etc, it can be random, but you cant say it is not a competition for synths.