Ascension Perk Elimination

[John Rusher]

That is so wrong! The benefit that you get from getting those extra systems earlier on lasts for the entire game.

Let me remind you, that you don't simply get those systems. It is just an opportunity for you to get those systems. But you won't get them majority of the time, because it is likely you will get boxed in before you even get your first ascension perk. And it is totaly useless for many civilizations at this moment : Fanatic Pacifists, and Pacifists can't use it, Purifiers can't use it, etc.

 

[qer]

Interstellar Dominion: 25 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 4
Voidborne: 10
Master Builders: 10
Galactic Wonders: 13(-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 14
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11
Insterstellar dominion for all the reasons already cited. Snowballing early game is much more important than getting late game bonuses
Down voted GW for that reason. I have yet to have a game where I fully used it, as I usually have better ways to spent minerals. Also building one at a time makes them take too much time

 

[Enska]

Interstellar Dominion: 26 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 4
Voidborne: 10
Master Builders: 8 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 14
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11

 

[John Rusher]

Interstellar Dominion: 25 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 4
Voidborne: 10
Master Builders: 10
Galactic Wonders: 13(-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 14
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11
Insterstellar dominion for all the reasons already cited. Snowballing early game is much more important than getting late game bonuses
Down voted GW for that reason. I have yet to have a game where I fully used it, as I usually have better ways to spent minerals. Also building one at a time makes them take too much time

Flesh is weak is still better, aspecialy with survivor spiecies, because it allows you to get 100% habitability on all planets. It allows for much more snowballing, because it creates actual economic strength that allows you to expand, rather than giving you opportunity to expand more, assuming you have a fleet to support this expansion at all, and assuming you have minerals to do it.

Minerals, early one are much more of a bottleneck than influence, mid-game it becomes your fleet power, and thus technology is more relevant for this reason - you want to build starbases and colonize planets you already own.

Expanding fast isn't realy that great, if your economy doesn't allow it. You should realize, that if you expand too fast, you will end up having too little energy, and too little minerals to support your expansion, meaning that you will be unable to protect your territory from pirates and enemies.

EDIT: BTW. Mind over matter causes the same that Flesh is weak does, giving your main spiecies tomb world preference, however it doesn't give you +20% habitability for all planets, so it isn't as good - but still good enough.

EDIT2: Althou, Mind over matter, doesn't require special project for your spiecies, so you get latent psionic for free.

 

[qer]

You are aware that we can pick 8 traits rigth? If I pick ID for first pick, I can choose synth Ascension for the second. ID is so good because it works best on early game, meaning that the advantage it provides carry on. Also the claim reduction cost shouldn't be overlooked if you can't access a total war CB. It is so good because regardless of your latter choices, picking ID first will bring a greater advantage than any other starter pick (unless you are boxed in a corner, that is the only scenario were it may not be necessary)

 

[John Rusher]

You are aware that we can pick 8 traits rigth? If I pick ID for first pick, I can choose synth Ascension for the second. ID is so good because it works best on early game, meaning that the advantage it provides carry on. Also the claim reduction cost shouldn't be overlooked if you can't access a total war CB. It is so good because regardless of your latter choices, picking ID first will bring a greater advantage than any other starter pick (unless you are boxed in a corner, that is the only scenario were it may not be necessary)

Yes, but question is, which is more important. And Synth or Psionic ascensions are more reliable, aspecialy synth ascension. Also, personaly I would take transcendent learning over Interstellar dominion. Also Idk. why people hate so much on Enigmatic Engineering, i think it's pretty usefull to have additional info on enemy as well as it can be usefull to prevent them from getting your techs. Also, mastery of nature, seems to be nice pick too, discount on clearing and +1-3 tiles on planet are quite okay.

Althou I personaly think, best first pick you can get is Technological Ascendancy, because technological advantage always snowballs - the faster you get techs, the faster you can increase your tech increase. To the point that only the fallen empires are not pathetic in comparison to you, when it comes to tech.

If you are aiming for technological advantage, best is to pick exploration ideas => technological ascendancy => flesh is weak

+20% tech increase. Actualy propably +30% because you wanna be materialist, and propably mechanist. Mechanist is one of the strongest builds in-game.

 

[Spartakus]

Interstellar Dominion: 27 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 4
Voidborne: 8 (-2)
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 14
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11

 

[sortulv]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 2 (-2)
Voidborne: 9(+1)
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 14
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11

TA is just a waste of a slot - the additative advantage of 10% is weak compared to most things you could use the slot for.
Building new worlds - it helps defend important systems that didn't have habitable worlds before (fortress habitats), and gives you more worlds for your economy...

 

[Dracoknight]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 0 (-2)
Voidborne: 9
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 14 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 14
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11

Lets deal the killing blow to the technological Ascendancy.

 

[Yross]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Voidborne: 7 (-2)
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 14
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 15 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 11

 

[James Fire]

I already stated why interstellar dominion is simply bad but let me rephrase it :
It doesn't make you able to expand much more than you want, only a little. Each five systems you CAN get one additional system. Same for war of conquest. However, if you compare it with VOIDBORNE for example, it is just bad. Voidborne, gives you MANY times more, since the habitats give you 12 resource sites per habitat, and you can build as many habitats as you have planets in the system - and often you can have 8 or more planets in just a single system.

Yes, that's one more system than anyone else. Per 5. It adds up. By the time they have 20, you have 24.

And let's compare it with just getting one more system for every five systems you claimed - assuming here, that you were not blocked from expanding by AI. For 1000 star systems, you have at best 1 in 5 systems with habitable planets. Propably less. So as you can see, this additional system, is less likely to give you a habitable planet, than voidborne does. In fact I see voidborn is quite overpowered right now, since you don't need planets anymore, to build ships, you just need starports.

Except voidborne can't be picked first. Unfair comparison.

Now, let's compare it with Ascensions - they give you bonuses to resources - one gives you bonus +10% to reasarch on planets and to scientists, other gives you +20% to all resources on all planets. This means they increase your productivity, more than you could get from just getting few more systems.

Strawman much? Both of those require 2 perks, and don't save you influence, which is quite limiting.

Even technological ascendancy, which increases tech output by 10% is better here. Same goes for master builders and galactic wonders in my opinion.

Interstellar dominion, simply gives you A CHANCE to get a bit more income sometimes. But it doesn't give you a strong bonus, simply discount on expansion, that may mean nothing in the long and short term. It is entirely luck based if it will be usefull at all.

Except for the fact it's not. 10% research speed, when you already have +50%, is nothing. Not to mention later when it gets to 150%.

No, it gives you an influence discount. You don't have to spend the saved influence on more outposts.

Dude : Let's make a truce, I think both ascensions are better than all the others, so let's try eliminating other perks. Synth and Psionic ascensions are perks that you will always choose either of. If you are mechanist you will pick synth, if you are religious you will pick psionic, simply because it is good.

Actually, I have never gone synth, and I have almost never not gone mechanist. (In vanilla games that you can only pick one)

Interstellar dominion is simply a CHANCE for expansion early, that doesn't assure you will get any good resources, while all other picks here, are strong bonuses that will always be active for whole game, and give you increase in productivity. 20% more systems doesn't = 20% more resources. And it's not even 20% more systems, it is a chance that you can get 20% more systems, if you're lucky. You will get much less 100% of the time.

Actually, it saves you influence. Which you can put to work. Whether that be in getting more territory or otherwise.

Let me remind you, that you don't simply get those systems. It is just an opportunity for you to get those systems. But you won't get them majority of the time, because it is likely you will get boxed in before you even get your first ascension perk. And it is totaly useless for many civilizations at this moment : Fanatic Pacifists, and Pacifists can't use it, Purifiers can't use it, etc.

Why can't they use the outpost discount?

 

[GloatingSwine]

Yes, but question is, which is more important. And Synth or Psionic ascensions are more reliable, aspecialy synth ascension. Also, personaly I would take transcendent learning over Interstellar dominion. Also Idk. why people hate so much on Enigmatic Engineering, i think it's pretty usefull to have additional info on enemy as well as it can be usefull to prevent them from getting your techs. Also, mastery of nature, seems to be nice pick too, discount on clearing and +1-3 tiles on planet are quite okay..

People don't care about enigmatic engineering for single player because the AI is dumb and predictable and even with the best technologies in the game its ships will be trash tier.

Mastery of Nature is bad because it costs 100 influence per planet for usually one tile, and influence can be better spent on literally anything else. Especially claims, where it's easy to get entire enemy planets for 100 influence a go once you've taken Interstellar Dominion and rivalled them. (Remember ISD is not only for taking neutral space, it also affects claims on enemies)


Anyway, today:

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Voidborne: 7
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 12 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 12 (+1)

Megastructures are too late to be relevant, Psionic ascension has the best stuff in it. Also, people are overestimating the RNG nature of it, because it can be taken early (only one tech requirement) and since 2.0 slowed down travel rolling every five years is suddenly much much quicker relative to everything else than it used to be. When it took half a year to cross a galaxy via jump drive it was nothing, now it takes half a year to cross a system.

 

[James Fire]

now it takes half a year to cross a system.

You should really upgrade your thrusters.

 

[Maverikfreak]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Voidborne: 5 (-2)
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 12
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 13 (+1)

 

[Silens]

Interstellar Dominion: 24 (-2)
Voidborne: 5
Master Builders: 8
Galactic Wonders: 12
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 14 (+1)

Interstellar Dominion is certainly a good pick in some situations, but the more the game progresses, the less it helps you. Right up to the point when you can get the Total War CB, then it is obsolete. It's good so snowball from the beginning, yes, but only when actually have systems to expand to, and that isn't always the case. And sometimes you just want to play tall (with MegaCorp more than ever before). Anyways, it is quite good, but has too many votes right now, given that it is a situational pick.

Psionic is good for instant benefits and the Shroud, for small and big empires alike. So up it goes.

 

[sortulv]

Megastructures are too late to be relevant,

Since the conditions of the thread requires us to beat the crisis, you should have the time to build around 4 megastructures before it triggers.

 

[ffsffs1]

New
Interstellar Dominion: 24
Voidborne: 5
Master Builders: 6 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 13 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 14

Figure I might as well touch on the megastructure perks since I haven't done so yet.

If I'm playing any kind of tall playstyle, I find passing on the Galactic Wonders really limits your end game potential. If your playing as a pacifist, unless you are in a large federation, you pretty much need habitats and/or ring worlds to achieve victory conditions. For most tall empires, the dyson sphere is necessary to support a fleet strong enough to stand up to strong crisis' (especially 5x). There have been strategies ever since Utopia came out built around getting an early science nexus. And before someone tells me this isn't the optimal way to play, the OP makes no mention about playstyle. Sure playing a wide warring empire will get you to victory faster and enable a larger fleet to smack down the end game crisis, but many builds simply cannot do this. Megastructures are crucial for a lot of different empire builds to satisfy the conditions OP specified.

Don't get me wrong master builders is a good pick and I'll pretty much always take it if I'm going for megastructures/habitats, but this perk is just not as nessecary as Voidborne/Galactic Wonders. While a lot of empires rely heavily on megastructures in the late game, being able to build them faster is icing on the cake. For example, an empire may need a dyson sphere to tackle a 5x crisis, but as long as you they get it finished before the crisis actually hits they'll be fine. If you need to spam habitats for victory, master builders just gets you there faster. While some people have argued Galactic Wonders to be a "win more" perk, I feel Master Builders fits this description better.

 

[Doctor Bones]

Interstellar Dominion: 24
Voidborne: 6 (+1)
Master Builders: 4 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 13
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 14

Master Builders gives you better habitats and more megastructures. It makes those two perks better but doesn't help if you can't build either. Therefore they are more important than MB.
Also, I'm part of the random colours gang!

 

[GloatingSwine]

Since the conditions of the thread requires us to beat the crisis, you should have the time to build around 4 megastructures before it triggers.

At which point you've wasted all the minerals you now need for ships to defeat it. If you spent all the minerals you wasted on megastructures on warships, you could own the majority of the galaxy, have a much much bigger economy than any four megastructures would have given you, and crush the crisis when it appears.

 

[GloatingSwine]

If I'm playing any kind of tall playstyle,

A tall playstyle cannot meet the requirements of this thread without comedy options like blowing up all the habitable planets.