Ascension Perk Elimination

[Pointyearedgit]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 4
Master Builders: 14(-2)
Galactic Wonders: 19(+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

Happy to see Interstellar Dominion getting it's due, such a good perk, not super OP or anything but its just useful so often. We are getting down to a list of strong perks, so I think we need to start removing the more situationally powerful ones first.

I'm taking Master Builders down a peg to boost Galactic Wonders, this is because Galactic Wonders is a more flexible perk that wide empires can even use to gain some extra vision or resources, it just nicely fits a late perk slot (sometimes) for them while GW is also a great pick for tall builds (combined with MB). MB got reworked to tie directly into habitats, a great move, but it makes the perk far more situational (but also more useful when it is a good pick).

 

[The Exile]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 14 (+1)
Voidborne: 4
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 19
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

While I love to go psionic, I agree with previous commenters that ascensions (despite their advantages) are ultimately more about story than winning. If we're talking just about min-maxing, Tech Ascendancy has got to be one of the best early perks for that.

 

[RedPearlA]

It mystifies me that, given the original conditions of this thread are about getting to the victory screen and beating the crisis, all the perks that let you build a strong empire are gone and all the ways to waste your minerals on pointless space tat are still in.

Megastructures are not battleships and battleships are the most cost effective way to increase the size of your economy.

This is my view as well. People either disregarded the criteria and just voted for what they like and downvoted what they dont like, or are just clueless about what things actually help an empire to grow strong in this game.

Could it be playstyle? Battleships are the most efficient way to increase the size of your economy if you're willing to use them on somebody, sure. But if you're not?

You're right I am being extremely noobish to have diplomatic relations with my neighbors, build 100+ habitats, and to build/maintain a 3000 supply navy while playing on grand admiral difficulty.

 

[PirateJack]

You're right I am being extremely noobish to have diplomatic relations with my neighbors, build 100+ habitats, and to build/maintain a 3000 supply navy while playing on grand admiral difficulty.

To be fair, you could have built a ton of battleships and taken over said neighbours planets instead of building habitats. Same effect for less cost.

 

[RedPearlA]

To be fair, you could have built a ton of battleships and taken over said neighbours planets instead of building habitats. Same effect for less cost.

Or I could build a colossus and conquer the entire galaxy with my 3000 supply fleet.

 

[RedPearlA]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 14 (-2)
Voidborne: 5 (+1)
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 19
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

If I could only have 1 perk for the entire game it would be Voidborne.

TA is not bad it is just not as powerful as the remaining perks.

 

[Hertzila]

All right, we've passed the threshold of 8 possible perks (not that that's what we were trying to accomplish) and at least I'm having trouble picking my choices.
Corrected from RedPearlA.

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 12
Voidborne: 6 (+1)
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 19
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 17 (-2)

Voidborne+: Giving this one a little life support. I think habitats are a good way to go while your fleet is under construction and you're going for megastructures as well. If you need minerals for both construction and megastructures, you clearly don't have enough mineral production.

Psionic Ascension-: Great concept, but the RNG execution leaves something to be desired IMO.

 

[Lord Beyer XVII]

Day n+1

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13 (+1)
Voidborne: 6
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 19
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 17 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 17

 

[Hapchazzard]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 6
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 19
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 18 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15 (-2)

Psionic ascension is overrated. Yes, sure, you can theoretically achieve greater boni than both synthetic and bio ascension. Keyword theoretically. You aren't guaranteed at all to get the favorable shroud patron or to get the useful random buffs. If RNG smiles on you, you can sort of get a marginally more productive empire than with synth ascension, but unless you're savescumming, it could be ages until you get one of the useful shroud patrons, and there's a chance of actually incurring maluses when trying to get the random buffs.

Synth is straightforward, effective and no-nonsense. You know what you're getting. There's no "maybe" and "if RNG smiles upon us". It just works. And the bonuses are great. +20% to everything right off the bat, optimizing your economy by not needing farms anymore, immortal leaders, 100% habitability everywhere, and the ability to fine tune POPs to their specific jobs.

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 6
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 17 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 18
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 16 (+1)

Galactic Wonders is a trap. It arrives late, takes a long time to deliver tangible benefits, and demands massive upfront investments of minerals and influence. Unlike Voidborne (against whom I will leverage some of the same complaints) it doesn't even help satisfy any victory conditions. Its continued survival in this competition is indefensible and I will vote it down every day henceforth.

 

[AlanC9]

Then you didn't read the OP of this thread.

This thread is supposed to be about what perks are best able to satisfy the conditions of reaching the victory screen and defeating the crisis.

Conquest (or making friends via regime change but that's worse because AI friends are bad at helping) is incomparably better at doing that than sitting on your ass waiting for a megastructure to finish.

But if I'm playing a Federation game -- which is explicitly included in the OP -- there are often times where I don't have a target for military expansion, and times where I could but it would be a waste of minerals and, more importantly, my time to fight a war since they're gonna join voluntarily in a year or two. What do I do then?

I suppose this depends on what counts as "best able." Does that include perks which force me into a boring playstyle? That isn't how I read the OP. What are we optimizing for, exactly?

FWIW, as someone who never bought any DLC, I didn't figure I was qualified to vote here.

 

[Tavior]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 6
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 17
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 14 (-2)

I am picking PSI again because it is the only perk on this list whose benefit is not very reliable or predictable even.

 

[Mastikator]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 7 (+1)
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 17
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 12 (-2)

 

[D Inqu]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 8 (+1)
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 17
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 10 (-2)

 

[John Rusher]

OK ok guys, but why interstellar dominion is so loved?
I mean it's not a good perk, you can get the same thing from repeatable technologies.

 

[PirateJack]

It's because it's the best first pick you can get. The major limit on expansion for normal empires at the start of the game is influence, not minerals. Interstellar Dominion allows you to expand much quicker because it reduces the influence cost for taking systems. While this isn't a huge deal compared to various mid-game choices, for a first pick it's objectively the best choice securing territory. The only competition at tier 0 is Technological Ascendancy, which I've been converted away from over the course of this thread because early game, you secure more science through deposits than a 10% modifier.

 

[John Rusher]

It's because it's the best first pick you can get. The major limit on expansion for normal empires at the start of the game is influence, not minerals. Interstellar Dominion allows you to expand much quicker because it reduces the influence cost for taking systems. While this isn't a huge deal compared to various mid-game choices, for a first pick it's objectively the best choice securing territory. The only competition at tier 0 is Technological Ascendancy, which I've been converted away from over the course of this thread because early game, you secure more science through deposits than a 10% modifier.

Oh wait, i remember now what this perk is. I see now. Still it's not as great. But I can see that if you want to cheese your way, and get as much systems it is decent. I would propably not pick it thou, unless i felt that I need to grab land fast, and low on influence.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Oh wait, i remember now what this perk is. I see now. Still it's not as great. But I can see that if you want to cheese your way, and get as much systems it is decent. I would propably not pick it thou, unless i felt that I need to grab land fast, and low on influence.

It stacks with non-repeatable techs to give you very low claim costs, absolutely brilliant for the early-mid game.

The ascension paths don't start adding up until pretty late in the game, the extra territory you take with this (not to mention the early game edicts) has a far greater impact. You can end up painting the map so fast it's silly.

 

[Sopbucket]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 9 (+1)
Master Builders: 14
Galactic Wonders: 15 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 19
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 10

 

[Mastikator]

OK ok guys, but why interstellar dominion is so loved?
I mean it's not a good perk, you can get the same thing from repeatable technologies.

Because you can get it as your first perk, by the time you have repeatables the influence it will have saved you is enough to have conquered half the galaxy. And since wide is taller than tall that is a big deal.