Ascension Perk Elimination

[GloatingSwine]

You need exactly zero repeatables before robomodded free synths match slaves..

No-ascension, guaranteed available Mineral producing slaves have 20% from pop traits (Strong + Industrious) , 55% available from slavery, and 93% available from empire effects, plus 40% available in multiplicative bonuses. Giving them a 221% total available bonus.

Synths with 100% happiness have 35% from pop traits, 103% from empire effects, and 60% available multiplicative for a 220% bonus.

However, both bio and psi ascension can do more. Either adding an extra 25% global bonus for a total 256% or adding Very Strong, Nerve Stapled, and Robust to them for an extra 15% additive/5% multiplicative bonus for a 250% total bonus.

(For reference a bio hive mind can get 35% at pop level, 83% at empire level, and 60% multiplicative for a total 188% bonus and a Machine empire can get 35% at pop level, 113% empire level, and 30% multiplicative bonus for a total 192% bonus, leaving both hives way behind)

This is why I don't rate synth ascension. You can be as good as it at minerals, the only thing that really matter, before you do your ascension and beat it afterwards because ascension doesn't really change the synth empire's production of minerals because all those tiles would have been worked by synths anyway.

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

There's a mistake from page 19 that I'm going to fix. @James Fire and @wingren013 voted for the same perks, but because James made an error and had to edit his post his vote ended up not being counted. From what I can tell, it hasn't been corrected yet so I'm adding James' +ID -TA for a current corrected tally of:

Interstellar Dominion: 27
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 12
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 16

World Shaper and Executive Vigor has been added to the graveyard.

Shouldn't we stop here? We have 10 ascension perks left, with two mutually exclusive pairs. Which means 2 combination of 8 ascension perks.

No, we keep going until all but one has eliminated. This does bring up an interesting point I'd like to address, though. The idea here is to evaluate perks by their own merits (and potential interactions with any other perk in the game), not how well they fit into the mix that's left. For example, even if Master Builders is eliminated, an evaluation of Voidborne should still take into account their synergy potential.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Interstellar Dominion: 27
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 10 -2
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 16 +1

It mystifies me that, given the original conditions of this thread are about getting to the victory screen and beating the crisis, all the perks that let you build a strong empire are gone and all the ways to waste your minerals on pointless space tat are still in.

Megastructures are not battleships and battleships are the most cost effective way to increase the size of your economy.

 

[4o1XOHBV6In4]

Interstellar Dominion: 28 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 10
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 16

So I think there's been a lot of good discussion that moved my opinion of a bunch of perks already. So let me bring forth a reason that's not been discussed as as much as I think it's relevant yet and that is that in single player the game is decided in the first ~100 years. If you can make it through those and are in a good position I feel you've already won, even though closing out the game will still take a while of course. This means the only way to lose is by dying or not snowballing enough in the early game and this is reflected in the choices I made.

Interstellar Dominion is a great perk. While playing tall works, snowballing through territory is probably the safer way to win in most scenarios and this perk makes it significantly easier. Because iInfluence is the resource limiting your expansion for large parts of the first 100 years.

Conversely, galactic wonders are too late to matter. Even if there was a wonder type victory with "build just one and you win" they would probably not be my pick, because by the time they unlock the game's already decided and they've not contributed anything to that. At best they can save me time, and while that's valuable and I would pick them for that (or just because I like them) I feel they don't meet the criteria of this contest.

 

[Vonuggbin]

Seems like GloatingSwine's vote for Psi Ascension wasn't added to the count. Psi should be at 17

 

[Vladisi]

It actually is up to +55% exclusively because they're slaves.

• +10% Chattel Slavery
• +10% Slave Processing Plant
• +10% Iron Fist Governor
• +10% Slaver Guilds Civic
• +10% Fanatic Authoritarian
• +5% Artifical Moral Codes Tech

Traits come on top of that.

You do realise that for Artificial Moral Codes there is an analogous tech for robots?

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

You do realise that for Artificial Moral Codes there is an analogous tech for robots?

Yes.

If you reread my post you'll see that I'm just clearing up a misunderstanding about how much slavery increases mineral output.

Seems like GloatingSwine's vote for Psi Ascension wasn't added to the count. Psi should be at 17

Seems so. This should be the current tally:


Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 10
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 17

 

[Badesumofu]

It mystifies me that, given the original conditions of this thread are about getting to the victory screen and beating the crisis, all the perks that let you build a strong empire are gone and all the ways to waste your minerals on pointless space tat are still in.

Megastructures are not battleships and battleships are the most cost effective way to increase the size of your economy.

This is my view as well. People either disregarded the criteria and just voted for what they like and downvoted what they dont like, or are just clueless about what things actually help an empire to grow strong in this game.

 

[Zohtun]

4th

Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 8 (-2)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 18 (+1)

Choices are tough now. Weakening Void because it is HELLISH expensive for what you get. I usually would rather build a wonder.

Boosting Psionic because Psionic. See the dozens of previous posts supporting it. It's got awesome tech, 'nuff said.

 

[Vynlanesh]

Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 8 (-2)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19 (+1)

I will always believe the Psionics are Better than Synthetic.

 

[AlanC9]

This is my view as well. People either disregarded the criteria and just voted for what they like and downvoted what they dont like, or are just clueless about what things actually help an empire to grow strong in this game.

Could it be playstyle? Battleships are the most efficient way to increase the size of your economy if you're willing to use them on somebody, sure. But if you're not?

 

[Halatung]

Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 6 (-2)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

 

[GloatingSwine]

Could it be playstyle? Battleships are the most efficient way to increase the size of your economy if you're willing to use them on somebody, sure. But if you're not?

Then you didn't read the OP of this thread.

This thread is supposed to be about what perks are best able to satisfy the conditions of reaching the victory screen and defeating the crisis.

Conquest (or making friends via regime change but that's worse because AI friends are bad at helping) is incomparably better at doing that than sitting on your ass waiting for a megastructure to finish.

 

[Holiness]

Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 12(+1)
Voidborne: 6
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 20 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

None of the ascensions help you win the game. Tech Ascendancy starts the snowball.

 

[General Guderian]

Interstellar Dominion: 26 (-2)
Technological Ascendancy: 13 (+1)
Voidborne: 6
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 20
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

 

[Maverikfreak]

@Vynlanesh Do not remove the numbers of his vote on voidborne, I made a correction.


Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 4 (Corrected)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 20
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

 

[Bobylein]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 11 (-2)
Voidborne: 4
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 20
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 20 (+1)

As there are not many good perks left, I gonna vote for Psi even though I downvoted it earlier.

 

[Melendor]

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 2 (-2)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

 

[General Guderian]

4th

Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 8 (-2)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 18 (+1)

Choices are tough now. Weakening Void because it is HELLISH expensive for what you get. I usually would rather build a wonder.

Boosting Psionic because Psionic. See the dozens of previous posts supporting it. It's got awesome tech, 'nuff said.

Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 11
Voidborne: 8 (-2)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21 (-2)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19 (+1)

I will always believe the Psionics are Better than Synthetic.

@Vynlanesh Do not remove the numbers of his vote on voidborne, I made a correction.


Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 4 (Corrected)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 20
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19

Didn't they simply forget to remove the pevious (-2)? Voidborne should still be at 6? Or did I miss something else?

 

[Maverikfreak]

Didn't they simply forget to remove the pevious (-2)? Voidborne should still be at 6? Or did I miss something else?

Okay, you are right, I just saw the -2 and I thought it was a mistake. Sorry, this is the good one (I believe)

Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 13
Voidborne: 4
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 18
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 19