Ascension Perk Elimination

[Secret Master]

This should also go to the meme thread

I think you are right. I will do so.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Executive Vigor 6
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 18(-2)
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2(+1)
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 20

World shaper costs no influence, does NOT effectively force you to take MoN (although it is a good pairing), and boosts production with the pops you already have. For many conquerers or high habitability galaxies, this choice is just amazing. It isn't the choice 100% of the time, sometimes voidborne is better, but it shouldn't be this far behind voidborne.

Voidborne isn't a bad perk, especially if you find yourself running low on tiles due to RP or galaxy settings. The thing is that it effectively locks you to getting Master Builders (as the extra tiles are just too good, thankfully MB = MoN for 2 extra max districts in 2.2) and costs a considerable amount of minerals and influence, which are both useful for other applications. It is not the pick if you are taking in a lot of territory, which is the most sure way to achieve victory IMO, narrowly ahead of Tall pacifists (which are also quite fun and do make good use of Voidborne).

I just do not think that Voidborne should be this far ahead of World Shaper.

 

[Melendor]

New
Executive Vigor 6
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 16(-2)
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 3(+1)
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 20

 

[Mastikator]

Executive Vigor 6
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 16
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 4 (+1)
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 18 (-2)

 

[pieman]

Executive Vigor 7 (+1)
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 16
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 4
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 21
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 16 (-2)

I Never get much out of Psionic, yeah, in theory you can get good results, but way too dependent on RNG to be reliable if we're actually going for the win here.

 

[Tavior]

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 16
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 4
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 14 (-2)

I picked PSI again because of the RNG nature of your rewards.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Of course, free Synth production is affected by happiness while slaves are not, which is a maximum of +20% resource bonus in itself. Since Synths tend to go Materialist and the Materialist faction is really trivial to please, it's pretty simple to get that required 100% or nearly 100% happiness around the mid-late game. And the happiness bonus is G2, or multiplicative like Gaia World is, so that bonus is more powerful than an equivalent +20% additive bonuses you generally find elsewhere. That and you can throw a Synth anywhere you want without losing production due to low habitability. (up to -20% additive penalty)

You need to be at something silly like 10 or 11 levels of repeatables before the 20% multiplicative happiness bonus matches the +55% bonus you can stack onto slaves.

They're really not close at all.

 

[Lord Beyer XVII]

I lost the day count... anyway

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 16
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2(-2)
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15(+1)

gaia is cool, but I mostly go wide, so terraforming in large enough scales, that it can have any sort of impact on my empire becomes only possible much after it can have a high enough impact (sorry for the tautology)
desperately trying to save psionic ascension

 

[evilcat]

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Voidbone +1, 1st pick, versalite, contributes to 40%, semi fast effect
Galactic Wonderers -2, i never had luck with it, late to come, a bit random to draw the card, seems to require all 3 perks.

 

[Tavior]

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17 (+1)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 20 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Not my votes but updated to reflect world shaper being voted off.

 

[Methone]

Not my votes but updated to reflect world shaper being voted off.

Uh, check above you, it hasn't been voted off. Among other things.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Voidbone +1, 1st pick, versalite, contributes to 40%, semi fast effect
Galactic Wonderers -2, i never had luck with it, late to come, a bit random to draw the card, seems to require all 3 perks.

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17 (+1)
Master Builders: 16
Galactic Wonders: 20 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Not my votes but updated to reflect world shaper being voted off.

Uh, check above you, it hasn't been voted off. Among other things.

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17(+1)
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2
Galactic Wonders: 20(-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

This is the last vote by "evilcat", including world shaper, which is hanging on at 2

 

[Badesumofu]

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 14 (-2)
World Shaper: 3 (+1)
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Mixing up the colours a bit. Disregarding @Tavior post since World Shaper hasn't been voted off

 

[James Fire]

New
Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 26 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 15 (-2)
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 3
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Tech ascendancy is only +10%. While good early game, it fails to hold up at any other time.

Interstellar dominion is a must for any wide empires, or any conquerors.

Edit: Oops. I didn't add my votes, even though I placed them there. Done so now.

 

[wingren013]

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 26 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 15 (-2)
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 14
World Shaper: 3
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

Interstellar Dominion is powerful no matter your ethics or gameplan. Fantastic first choice. Technological Ascendancy is trash though. I don't think I've ever won a single game of Stellaris due to tech and I don't think an extra 10% bonus would have made a difference to that.

 

[Tavior]

I lost the day count... anyway

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 16
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2(-2)
Galactic Wonders: 22
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15(+1)

gaia is cool, but I mostly go wide, so terraforming in large enough scales, that it can have any sort of impact on my empire becomes only possible much after it can have a high enough impact (sorry for the tautology)
desperately trying to save psionic ascension

Executive Vigor 7
Interstellar Dominion: 25
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Voidborne: 17(+1)
Master Builders: 16
World Shaper: 2
Galactic Wonders: 20(-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

This is the last vote by "evilcat", including world shaper, which is hanging on at 2

Lord Beyer voted off world shaper or did I misread it?

 

[Badesumofu]

Lord Beyer voted off world shaper or did I misread it?

World Shaper: 2

Looks like you misread it.

 

[bunkerman]

Executive Vigor 5 (-2)
Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 15
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 15 (+1)
World Shaper: 3
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

not gonna repeat my expalanations i am just happy a decnet amount of people agree that its vigors time to go

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Lord Beyer voted off world shaper or did I misread it?

There was 2 left and he voted -2 so you subtracted it to 0, where the -2 meant it started at 4 and was reduced to 2.

Executive Vigor 5 (-2)
Interstellar Dominion: 26
Technological Ascendancy: 15
Voidborne: 17
Master Builders: 15 (+1)
World Shaper: 3
Galactic Wonders: 20
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 22
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 15

not gonna repeat my expalanations i am just happy a decnet amount of people agree that its vigors time to go

you could explain your upvote of MB though (I said my piece on that already, lol)

 

[Retry]

You need to be at something silly like 10 or 11 levels of repeatables before the 20% multiplicative happiness bonus matches the +55% bonus you can stack onto slaves.

They're really not close at all.

You need exactly zero repeatables before robomodded free synths match slaves.
Synths have a +20% additive bonus to minerals and food (and basically everything else), robomod using 1 point to get power drills or harvesters gives an additional additive +10% to minerals or food respectively. Bio-slaves in your example are obviously using species traits like Servile & Industrious (That 55% is all additive and the bonus isn't exclusively because they're slaves, lots of it is various pop traits), so fair is fair.

The way G1 and G2 multipliers interact is the following:
(1+Sum of Additives)*(1+Sum of Multiplicatives)
So a 100% happy free Synth with power drills will have the following multiplier for minerals:
(1+.2(synth)+.1(drills))*(1+.2(Happiness))=(1.3)*(1.2)=1.56->56% effective bonus
Which is approximately equal to (actually, marginally greater than) the claimed +55% additive bonus from slaves.

Taking into account other things like the Mineral Processing Plant, Exoskeletons, Drone Mining Techniques, and most pop traits usually benefits the happy synth more than it does the slave as these are almost all additive (G1) bonuses. A Lv2 Mineral Processor and exoskeletons on a planet will drag the Bio-slaves in your example from 55% to 80%. Doing the same with the happy power drill synths will net (1+.2+.1+.05(exoskeleton)+.2(processor))*(1+.2)=1.86->86%.

Things tend to even back out a bit once including the other G2 modifiers like Governor level and Gaia World. A regular world with a Lv10 governor and the previously stated additive bonuses will grant (1.8)*(1+.2(governor))=2.16->126% to minerals for slaves, and the happy synths will generate (1.55)*(1+.2+.2(governor))=2.17->127% to minerals.


Also note that in all cases we're pretending the slave species is living on a planet with 100% habitability for these models, so no penalties to resource production due to habitability. Anything less than perfect habitability will, of course, widen the gap between Robo-Mod Synths and Slaves.

TL;DR:Happy synths have similar production to slaves, and often more.