Ascension Perk Elimination

[bunkerman]

@Silens correcting numbers but cutting off executive vigor doesnt really help the case here is the real current list

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Transcendent Learning: 3
Voidborne: 21
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 9
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 14
Galactic Wonders: 18
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 21

funny how executive vigor gets eliminated on accident almost as often as stuff gets actually legitimately removed

 

[GloatingSwine]

Never really seen why terraforming is that great. It uses too many resources which you can use elsewhere. The fact that it uses energy makes it partly better though I never seem to use this enough for it to be worth it.

It uses energy, which you really can't use elsewhere and just sits there being yellow at the top of your screen.

Machine Worlds are worse than Gaia Worlds (+20% additive vs. 10% multiplicative) even for machine empires though. (Machine empires are sad for production, poor pop traits, can't use happiness, their pop research bonus is additive vs. bio hive multiplicative, no bonus to match slavery, etc)

 

[Silens]

@Silens correcting numbers but cutting off executive vigor doesnt really help the case here is the real current list

funny how executive vigor gets eliminated on accident almost as often as stuff gets actually legitimately removed

Sorry, especially as I like Executive Vigor despite the nerf from 100% to 50%.

 

[CptMuddles]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Transcendent Learning: 1 (-2)
Voidborne: 21
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 9
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15 (+1)
Galactic Wonders: 18
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 21

+Colossus Project. As others have mentioned, the Total War Casus Belli is the real meat on these bones. Instant control of systems with no influence cost is a total gamechanger, and the Colossus can definitely have its uses. I'd argue it's much more likely to win you the game than building Dyson Spheres would.

-Transcendent Learning. Sure, you can get your leaders to level 10 without it, but the redundancy isn't the reason why. The reason why is that the extra bonuses granted by those extra leader levels are barely even significant in the first place. +Fire Rate, +Pop Production, and so on are all quite good - but there are just better things to be spending your Ascension Perks on, things that'll get you further ahead in the game than this.

 

[Cry_Havok]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Transcendent Learning: -1 (-2) - Eliminated
Voidborne: 21
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 9
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15 (+1)
Galactic Wonders: 18
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 22 (+1)

Transcendent Learning I was ambivalent on until reading people's arguments against it, I've never taken it, and doubt I ever will.

Putting another point to Psionic because it is far and away the best path, for several reasons
1: It doesn't have a crap ton of special projects, unlike Bio and Synthetic
2: It's good for everyone. Bio gets its best out of authoritarianism. Synthetic just doesn't work if your empire spiritualist; has mild to spectacularly huge diplomatic penalties (spiritualist AIs don't like cyborgs, and everyone hate synth ascension); and kills happiness for Xenophiles by eliminating multicultural bonuses.
3: Even without the shroud Psionic pops are just fantastic. Research might not win the game, but it wins more than army damage
4: Shroud boons may be a crapshoot, but can get some great things, like some of the best techs.
5: Psionics will spread on their own, so you can get by without using assimilation.

 

[John Rusher]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Transcendent Learning: -1 (-2) - Eliminated
Voidborne: 21
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 9
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15 (+1)
Galactic Wonders: 18
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 23
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 22 (+1)

Transcendent Learning I was ambivalent on until reading people's arguments against it, I've never taken it, and doubt I ever will.

Putting another point to Psionic because it is far and away the best path, for several reasons
1: It doesn't have a crap ton of special projects, unlike Bio and Synthetic
2: It's good for everyone. Bio gets its best out of authoritarianism. Synthetic just doesn't work if your empire spiritualist; has mild to spectacularly huge diplomatic penalties (spiritualist AIs don't like cyborgs, and everyone hate synth ascension); and kills happiness for Xenophiles by eliminating multicultural bonuses.
3: Even without the shroud Psionic pops are just fantastic. Research might not win the game, but it wins more than army damage
4: Shroud boons may be a crapshoot, but can get some great things, like some of the best techs.
5: Psionics will spread on their own, so you can get by without using assimilation.

Oh no, Transcendent learning is dead!

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 21
Galactic Force Projection: 17
Machine Worlds: 7 (-2) *
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15
Galactic Wonders: 18
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 24 (+1)**
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 22

*Because machine empires are bad and tend to die. So it just isn't used much.
**Because synths on the other hand, are just good, and you can convert organics to synths, increasing the rate of growth of your civilization.

 

[RedPearlA]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 21 (+1)
Galactic Force Projection: 17 (-2)
Machine Worlds: 7
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15
Galactic Wonders: 18
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 24
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 22

Voidboure allow you to build a huge economy without even declaring war.

 

[Hertzila]

Third post, choices are getting scarce. Wonder-shilling is still on-going, though.

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 22
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 5 (-2)
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15
Galactic Wonders: 19 (+1)
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 24
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 22

Galactic Wonders+: I stand by wonders being powerful things. Voidborne + Master Builders + Galactic Wonders also help and combo with each other rather nicely.

Machine Worlds-: Something had to be picked, and terraforming has always been something I don't see much of a point in. Granted, I tend to go Synthetic or Biological Ascension, but still. Between Machine and Gaia Worlds, my understanding is that Machines are worse.

E: Fix to RedPearlA's counts.

 

[Vynlanesh]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 22
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 3 (-2) *
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 24
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 23 (+1)

- Because even though its cool from a role play perspective. The fact that it is reliant on being used by a Machine Empire, Have the Climate Restoration Technology, Have the energy to use on terraforming, and the time to wait to benefit from the terrforming just adds a lot to this perk.

+ Psionic Ascension path has always been my favorite. The flavor behind it and the random chance by risking something negative but potentially getting something great is just to good to pass up.

 

[Lord Beyer XVII]

Day 5

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 22
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 1(-2)
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 15
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 24
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 24(+1)

Machine Worlds, just to put it one step closer to it's inevitable demise
Psionic Ascension, because yes, I'm biased towards it

 

[eagletrekkie]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 22
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 1
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 18
Colossus Project: 13 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25 (+1)
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 24

Sad to see MoN gone. Ah well.

I usually only go for the first stage of Synth ascension but I still think its the most universally useful of the ascension paths. Cyborgs are just useful.

Docking the colossus because I'm still not thrilled about planet killers being in the game. Never a huge fan of that trope. Eh well.

 

[Pointyearedgit]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 28
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 22
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: -1(-2) ELIMINATION
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 19(+1)
Colossus Project: 13
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 24

World Shaper Gaia Worlds are useful for most empires, and come with a nice discount on all terraforming.

Machine worlds are more niche, and have no discount.

 

[Mastikator]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 29 (+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 22
Galactic Force Projection: 13 (-2)
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 13
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 11
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 24

 

[Vonuggbin]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 29
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 23 (+1)
Galactic Force Projection: 13
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 13
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 9 (-2)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 24

 

[y1kdcb5au9rqw]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 29
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 24 (+1)
Galactic Force Projection: 13
Master Builders: 17
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 11 (-2)
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 9
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 24

 

[General Guderian]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 29
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 24
Galactic Force Projection: 13
Master Builders: 18 (+1)
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 11
Galactic Wonders: 19
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 9
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 22 (-1)

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 29
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 24
Galactic Force Projection: 13
Master Builders: 18
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 11
Galactic Wonders: 17 (-2)
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 9
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 23 (+1)

Galactic Wonders is usually a trap. You have better things to spend your perk slots on than a massive drain for minerals and influence promising to pay off somewhere far down the line. Psi, conversely, is the best ascension because it's the least costly.

Several perks have been added to the graveyard. I'm personally surprised Machine Worlds made it into the top half!

Eliminated
13. Machine Worlds
14. Transcendent Learning
15. Defender of the Galaxy
16. Mastery of Nature
17. Grasp the Void
18. Imperial Prerogative
19. Eternal Vigilance
20. Galactic Contender
21. One Vision
22. Shared Destiny
23. Consecrated Worlds
24. Enigmatic Engineering
25. Synthetic Age
26. Nihilistic Acquisition

 

[WhiteKyubey]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 29
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 25 (+1)
Galactic Force Projection: 11 (-2)
Master Builders: 18
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 11
Galactic Wonders: 17
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 9
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 23

Special + for voidborn if you are playing rogue servitors. These robots have very high influence like +7 around 2210, so they easily build lots of habitats for all these bio thropes with different climate preferences.

 

[evilcat]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 30
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 25
Galactic Force Projection: 11
Master Builders: 18
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 11
Galactic Wonders: 17
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 7
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 23

Biological Ascession -2, it is time to admit which ascession path is the worse and doesnt gives enought for the price.
Interstellar Domiance +1, faster expansion, more glory for our empire/

 

[Badesumofu]

Executive Vigor 20
Interstellar Dominion: 30
Technological Ascendancy: 23
Voidborne: 25
Galactic Force Projection: 11
Master Builders: 16 (-2)
World Shaper: 19
Colossus Project: 12 (+1)
Galactic Wonders: 17
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery): 7
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution): 25
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence): 23

Master Builders - not a bad perk by any means, but it's of limited value in many situations, and in particular I don't think it contributes much to winning the game or defeating the crisis (which are the relevant criteria).

Have to boost Total War again, especially given the ridiculous reasons some people have given for downvoting it (what does the trope of planet killers not being to your taste remotely have to do with this thread?).