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Jmes Snowscoran

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To ease the wait for Megacorporations and the changes they will bring, and in light of the multitude of threads spawned recently on the topic of ascension perk balance, I thought we might do an ascension perk elimination game to gauge the community's view on current balance. The rules are as follows:

1. All ascension perks start with a score of 15 points.

2. Once a day, you can post a vote where you promote one perk, adding one point to its score, and demote another perk, removing two points from its score. Post the whole list, identifying clearly which perks you have promoted and demoted. Include a reason for your selection if you want to.
(This is not a 24-hour rule, you can post in the evening and then next morning if that's convenient for you. Use common sense.)

3. Once a perk has reached 0 or less points, it is eliminated from the competition and can no longer be selected for promotion or demotion. The last perk with positive points wins!

4. If the vote tally becomes incorrect due to simultaneous posting or math errors, participants are encouraged to post a revised total as a fresh post.

5. The criteria for selection is the most useful and least useful ascension perks for winning the game AND surviving past all crises.
  • Domination, which requires colonizing 40% of all habitable planets. Those owned by vassals and tributaries count while planets owned by allies and federation members do not.
  • Conquest, which requires conquering or subjugating all independent empires except for fallen empires. In singleplayer Conquest victory is disabled if the game is started without AI players.
  • Federation, which requires all members of a single federation to collectively colonize 60% of all habitable planets. A human player can only win by this method while holding the federation presidency.

6. The three ascension paths (psionic, synthetic and biological) each consist of two separate ascension perks, but because they are typically selected together they will be treated as a single choice for the purpose of this game. They should still be evaluated as two perks for balance purposes.

Ascension perks and their effects at the time of writing


Starting List
Consecrated Worlds: 15
Executive Vigor: 15
Imperial Prerogative: 15
Interstellar Dominion: 15
Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: 15
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 15
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 15
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

Final Ranking
1. Interstellar Dominion (winner, with 27 remaining points at the elimination of the runner-up)
2. Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak + Synthetic Evolution)
3. Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter + Transcendence)
4. Galactic Wonders
5. Voidborne
6. Master Builders
7. Technological Ascendancy
8. Executive Vigor
9. World Shaper
10. Colossus Project
11. Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution + Evolutionary Mastery)
12. Galactic Force Projection
13. Machine Worlds
14. Transcendent Learning
15. Defender of the Galaxy
16. Mastery of Nature
17. Grasp the Void
18. Imperial Prerogative
19. Eternal Vigilance
20. Galactic Contender
21. One Vision
22. Shared Destiny
23. Consecrated Worlds
24. Enigmatic Engineering
25. Synthetic Age
26. Nihilistic Acquisition
 
Last edited:

Jmes Snowscoran

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Consecrated Worlds: 13 (-2)
Executive Vigor: 15
Imperial Prerogative: 15
Interstellar Dominion: 16 (+1)
Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: 15
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 15
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 15
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Ascension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

ISD is almost always my #1 pick with its fantastic bonus to early expansion that scales into your midgame wars once the map has been mostly claimed. A great perk all around, especially because it's starter tier.

Consecrated Worlds: I don't think I would use the edict much even if it didn't cost an ascension perk, so this is an easy no-go.
 
Last edited:

PirateJack

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
Executive Vigor: 15
Imperial Prerogative: 15
Interstellar Dominion: 16
Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: 13 (-2)
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 16
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 15
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

Technological Ascendancy is one of the best first pick Ascension Perks you can possibly select. Nihilistic Acquisition is a really niche option that doesn't work very well in the current tile system and is much slower than just taking the planet, moving the POPs, then giving it back as shown in the Dev Clash.
 

Silens

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
Executive Vigor: 15
Imperial Prerogative: 15
Interstellar Dominion: 16
Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: 11 (-2)
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 17 (+1)
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 15
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15


The 10% tech-bonus is good in early, late and even endgame, the ability to steal pops isn't worth spending a point.

Yes, Nihilistic Acquisition and the worth of slaves will change dramatically with Le Guin, but my decision is based solely on the current version of the game.
 

Newbee53

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Mastery of Nature: 16 (+1)
Nihilistic Acquisition: 9 (-2)
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Transcendent Learning: 15
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Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 15
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

Mastery of Nature is just a fun perk that is very flexible. Being able to grab all those 12-13 size planets while still making them useful is always helpful when pined in.
Nihilistic Acquisition. Only reason I would take it would be a rouge servitor RP.
 

Post-Moe

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
Executive Vigor: 16 (+1)
Imperial Prerogative: 15
Interstellar Dominion: 16
Mastery of Nature: 16
Nihilistic Acquisition: 7 (-2)
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 15
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

EV really is more of a solid pick then a lot of people give it credit for. The ability to keep those edicts running at a much lower influence cost is incredibly powerfull especially early to midgame. And since this applies to unity ambitions too it means you can run more of them alongside each other.
NA is just... Meh... For reasons others have already stated.
 

Archael90

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
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Interstellar Dominion: 16
Mastery of Nature: 14 (-2)
Nihilistic Acquisition: 7
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Transcendent Learning: 15
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Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 16 (+1)
Colossus Project: 15
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15
 

Pointyearedgit

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
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Mastery of Nature: 14
Nihilistic Acquisition: 7
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 15
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Transcendent Learning: 15
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Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 16
Colossus Project: 13(-2)
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

It's more powerful to push your early/mid game advantages with Dominion than to wait on a Colossus (no matter how fun it is to use them).

6. The three ascension paths (psionic, synthetic and biological) each consist of two separate ascension perks, but because they are typically selected together they will be treated as a single choice for the purpose of this game. They should still be evaluated as two perks for balance purposes.

You really don't have to take both synthetic ascensions, although you basically should for bio and psionic. You should let TFiW be separate.
 
Last edited:

WhiteKyubey

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
Executive Vigor: 16
Imperial Prerogative: 13(-2)
Interstellar Dominion: 17
Mastery of Nature: 14
Nihilistic Acquisition: 7
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 16(+1)
Technological Ascendancy: 17
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 15
World Shaper: 16
Colossus Project: 13
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

I like Shared Destiny, because it's cheaper then claims to get new systems. Also making vassals+integrate is allowed for pacifists, does not produce much threat and don't give pops -40% happiness! Making vassals have a bit too many restrictions, but can still worth it!
And core system thing does not work in current state at all.
 

Jmes Snowscoran

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You really don't have to take both synthetic ascensions, although you basically should for bio and psionic. You should let TFiW be separate.

You make a fair point. Personally I haven't given this option serious consideration since the changes back in 1.8 Čapek/Synthetic Dawn. Prior to that, I think taking just TFiW without SE was a very viable option- afterwards it doesn't look worthwhile to me. Either way, this is a bit tangential, and I'm not going to make a retroactive rule change (it was also done this way to keep the number of contestants down). If you do want to promote TFiW but don't feel that SE is worth picking, just cast your vote for Synthetic Ascension and explain your reasoning in the post itself :)
 

Hapchazzard

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Consecrated Worlds: 13
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Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 17
Mastery of Nature: 14
Nihilistic Acquisition: 7
One Vision: 15
Shared Destiny: 16
Technological Ascendancy: 18(+1)
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 15
Enigmatic Engineering: 15
Grasp the Void: 15
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 13(-2)
World Shaper: 16
Colossus Project: 13
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

Not going to go into detail about my vote for technological ascendancy, I feel that other people have elaborated my own opinion well enough.

Synthetic age is just... almost broken and completely useless currently. Not in the sense that it's bugged, but due to trait number limitations and the lack of good traits for machine POPs, there's literally no reason whatsoever to ever pick it. Nihilistic aquisition I can at least see some niche/RP uses, while synthetic age doesn't even have that.
 

RedPearlA

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Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 15

Being able to built lots of artificial planets is really strong. Consecrated Worlds gives way to little.
 

zukodark

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Voideborne is just great for everything, especially victory conditions. Don't know how many times I've crossed the 40%-mark through habitats.
 

Sopbucket

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All of the ascension paths are great options for the ability to assimilate hive mind pops and because they tend to provide straight multiplier effects to resource production. The psionic is probably the best of these - the effects are applied immediately without any research sink, they get a bonus to influence, and an early avatar can be a significant boost to fleet strength, among other things.

One Vision is particularly bad alongside Psionic Ascension, which already gets significant bonuses to ethics attraction and unrest reduction (and unity for that matter), but I think overall unrest is so easy to deal with that I wouldn't ever consider taking this. The unity boost is nice, but the whole point of unity is to get ascension perks, not the other way around.
 
Last edited:

Orkonkel

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Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
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Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 17 (+1)

Just gotta love psionic ascension. Make your godfearing citizens better at everything, plus breaching the shroud is such an immense, impactful moment for your species. They trascended their mortal limitations with the sheer force of their will.
 

Azhcristokos

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One Vision: 13
Shared Destiny: 16
Technological Ascendancy: 18
Transcendent Learning: 15
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Enigmatic Engineering: 13 (-2)
Grasp the Void: 16 (+1)
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 13
World Shaper: 16
Colossus Project: 13
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 17

---

Enigmatic Engineering's bonuses simply do not align. Preventing other empires from reverse-engineering your technology is only useful in the late game, by which time you should be advanced or powerful enough to effortlessly stomp any empires that are far enough behind to really benefit from scanning your debris. The sensor bonus is only really useful in the early game, but is not enough to help you snowball. In short, they are both minor conveniences. Edit (x2): This perk might be more useful in multiplayer but I based my evaluations on single-player.

Grasp the Void comes at a time when starbases are desperately needed to boost naval force limits and energy income, but also when boosts to starbase capacity are at a premium. Its utility fades later on, but a player who selects it early and abuses its advantages can greatly accelerate their rise to power. There are better choices, but this is definitely a good one for the early game (if used to its full potential).

Edit: Spelling, wording, grammar.
 
Last edited:

Archon87

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Consecrated Worlds: 11
Executive Vigor: 16
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Interstellar Dominion: 17
Mastery of Nature: 15 (+1)
Nihilistic Acquisition: 3
One Vision: 13
Shared Destiny: 16
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Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 17

Mastery of Nature is a very underrated perk, IMO. Being able to permanently increase the size of planets is pretty nice, even if you do have to pay energy and influence to do it. I usually take it as my second perk, unless I get blessed with many good sized planets at the start. Reducing the cost of clearing blockers is just icing on the cake. (though I do miss the version that made it free)

Synthetic age is bad for two reasons: Only machine empires can get it, which is annoying. Also, they get more robomodding points than bio empires anyway. Adding that there are not that many good robot traits and the cap on total traits per template and this perk just gives you points that you'll never be able to use. Pass.
 

KingAlamar

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Consecrated Worlds: 11
Executive Vigor: 17 (+1)
Imperial Prerogative: 13
Interstellar Dominion: 17
Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: 1 (-2)
One Vision: 13
Shared Destiny: 16
Technological Ascendancy: 18
Transcendent Learning: 15
Voidborne: 17
Enigmatic Engineering: 13
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 11
World Shaper: 16
Colossus Project: 13
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 15
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 17

Executive Vigor: Being able to get significant boosts via Edicts & such really helps with my personal playstyle. I may not necessarily be doing the early snowball to victory but this helps reinforce everything I do to make up for not otherwise playing optimally.

Nihilistic Acquisition: Doesn't work particularly well with my playstyle. Might try it one day but it's simply not high on my list of "to do"s.
 

Retry

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Consecrated Worlds: 11
Executive Vigor: 17
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Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: -1 (-2)
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Shared Destiny: 16
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Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 16 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 17

---

If I'm not specifically planning on Synthetic or Psionic ascensions, or I'm just sort of indecisive between options, Biological Ascension is closest to a "generic", all-purpose ascension perk, arguably the most "flexible" of the ascension perks, as long as you have a bit of time to dump some society research into pop modding.

For your main species, you almost certainly want to add Erudite and Robust, possibly Fertile too with some insignificant negative perk for a good all-around class.
Erudite's basically an advanced version of Intelligent +Talented, that also gives a decent boost to leaders like being a Synth or Psychic does.

Robust is basically a combination of Venerable & Extremely Adaptive, with a little resource bonus to put icing on the cake. The 30% habitability is big, as habitability effects both raw resource output and happiness (which in turn also affects resource output among other things). That little 5% resource bonus is actually more useful than it looks: Robust's resource buff is a G2 bonus, or multiplicative like Gaia is. That plus Erudite and Selected Lineages/Capacity Boosters makes for very strong leaders with a very high skill cap that'll live a long while.

Fertile is Traditional, Communal, and an upgraded Rapid Breeders all-in-one. That happiness bonus is, again, more potent than it seems at first glance since the resource buff due to excess happiness is also a G2 bonus (multiplicative). Potentially useful for slaves too due to the owner happiness bonus.

If you're a slaver you can mod your slaves to optimization too. If you went Syncretic: Serviles, Robust, Nerve-Stapled, Strong, Industrious gives +30% habitability (you can plop your slaves basically anywhere with minimal habitability-related production loss), 10+10+5+15=40% minerals additive G1 and 5% multiplicative G2 bonus, add other slavery-related or general bonuses as needed, and you can raise decent slave armies too as a slight bonus. Unless you want to make a Very Strong battle thrall species specialized for war either as slave armies or Gene Warriors (which for some reason I always see as the SPARTANs from Halo), you can do that too, and you don't need that many pops either.

I am... much less impressed with Nihilistic Aquisition. I guess it could be helpful early game, abduct some pops to fuel your economy. But there's a lot of good T0 perks also competing for that spot, so it feels more like a flavor piece to turn your empire into Barbaric Despoilers Lite.

------

So I suppose this means Nihilistic Aquisition is eliminated by the criteria.
 

ffsffs1

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Consecrated Worlds: 11
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Mastery of Nature: 15
Nihilistic Acquisition: -1
One Vision: 13
Shared Destiny: 16
Technological Ascendancy: 18
Transcendent Learning: 15
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Enigmatic Engineering: 11 (-2)
Grasp the Void: 16
Eternal Vigilance: 15
Galactic Force Projection: 15
Machine Worlds: 15
Master Builders: 15
Synthetic Age: 11
World Shaper: 16
Colossus Project: 13
Defender of the Galaxy: 15
Galactic Contender: 15
Galactic Wonders: 15
Biological Acension (Engineered Evolution+Evolutionary Mastery): 16 (+1)
Synthetic Ascension (The Flesh is Weak+Synthetic Evolution): 15
Psionic Ascension (Mind over Matter+Transcendence): 17

Interstellar Dominion is my first pick in around 75% of my games. Being able to claim territory quickly and cut off other empires via choke points is just so good. Unless you're playing very tall this ascension perk will always be a big positive for you.

Enigmatic Engineering is basically useless in SP (its probably better in MP, but I still doubt its that good). You're only going to want enigmatic engineering if you have a big tech lead - but since repeatable techs can't be reverse engineered, in the late game you don't have to worry about AI empires catching up to you in military tech. About the only time I could see myself wanting this was if I had a strong rival neighbour, and I got lucky and managed to rush something like gamma-ray laser super early. Even then I probably wouldn't pick it.