Ascension Paths as Tradition Trees

[Zergash]

The idea behind an Ascension perk is currently an upgrade to a already existing, and available mechanic:

• You can better terraform (Gaia World)
• You can better do Fleets (get Fleet Bonus, etc.)
• You can better administer (more Cap, more bonus per pop, etc.)
  etc.

Currently the Psionic-Perks is the big exception from that. And that got me thinking:

Could we place them into a Tradition Tree instead?

The same goes for the other 2 Paths: Cybernetics/Computerisation and Biotech.

The advantages would be:

• We could mix! the old ascencion-paths (there are already lots of mods that do this, so it is clearly a wanted feature):
  • Psionic Cyborgs - why not. Psionic Gene Warriors!, genemodding Psionics into species etc.
• We could trigger events for unlocked steps within a tradition Tree! (this is a big one)
  • Introducing something like cybernetics/psionics to your people is an ongoing process
    - currently it is a Tech Project which will block your science progress for a bit and feels... weird -
    We could do it step-by-step, if we would introduce it as events that go along with the unlocking of tradition steps.
    Tradition Step: "Cyberification of the Military "- depending on the ethics you could have different answer responses here (Every Soldier needs to be a cyborg, for easy replacement parts! - or technocrats say: Why stop at soldiers? - each giving different side effects that effect the political parties for example) or: "Direct Computer Access Ports" - which can increaase science output, or boost social media presence of your folks for increased unity output?
    TLDR: A small basic bonus on each Step - and then a decision which is influenced by your civics / ethics for additonal / more custom bonus - and malus.
• The player will unlock different aspects of the "perk" slowly - and is eased more into it. Also: since we get a tooltip for each step the total benefits become clearer!
  • let's say: you unlock: "shroud cults" - and then "Contacting the shroud" - each could give you hints/events/story about the entitites in the shroud, before you can actually make contact with them.
• The Ascension perks can additionally buff, or complete the individual paths and still be mutually exclusive!
  • Cybernetics -> Synths, Telepaths -> full Psionics, Biomodding to Bioengineering with living ships as unlocked techs, etc.
    • The ascencion perk could give access to certain techs for ship types or megastructures: like psionic avatars(in a smaller form) as ships for psionics, or Living ships that use Food instead of alloys for its frame, or a matrioshka brain super computer for synths. (Similarly to other ascension perks.)

The paths could look seomthing like this:

Cybernetics (Maybe increased unity cost for spiritualists?)
1. Augmented Parts - why stick with faulty/inadequate designs? - (+5% Pop output): Triggers event with special uses for each ethic with a specific bonus (+10% research, or +10% unity, + 5% firepower and +5% Evasion, -10% empire sprawl, etc.)
2. Nanite Bloodcells - In case of risks or side effects please contact your next cyberneticist! - (+20% habitability and +20 years lifespan)
3. Cybernetic Culture - Upgade yourself! - (+10% Amenities, +5% Pop Growth/Assembly): Unlock Leader Traits
4. (needs 1 & 2) - Assimilation Protokols - Sharing is caring! - +20% Army Strenth, Give Option: Assimilation War Goal and Laws
5. (needs 3 & 4) - Replaceable Bodies - Are we just Ghosts in the Machine? - (+20 years lifespan, +5% Pop Growth/Assembly, +5% Robot Output): Trigger Event with bonuses: (military + Ship Evasion, materialistic +robot output, spiritualist: +unity (à la: we are only holy spirits, living to serve the higher powers of the universe, etc.), xenophiles (diplomatic androids) + 10% political power, etc.)

I hope this gives you some ideas!
Keep up the great work, really love this game.

 

[Rostyk.96]

I like the idea of turning ascension paths into traditions, but disagree with everything else, and they still should remain incompatible. Also, this change would require adding more ascension perks and rebalancing of both perks and traditions, there is already too much disparity there.

 

[Zergash]

that is competely fair! If we can get ascencion paths as trees it would make them also potentially too easy to get. so we need some restrictions there.

 

[Rostyk.96]

that is competely fair! If we can get ascencion paths as trees it would make them also potentially too easy to get. so we need some restrictions there.

Same prerequisites as for perks should do i think. Also, with ascension paths being traditions you'd have to chose between them and other traditions, can't have both at same time this way.

 

[GOLANX]

It Should be that you pick up the Ascension Path and then get the tradition tree, with maybe the second perk giving access to the Shroud, or the ability to become a gestalt or something.

 

[TSBasilisk]

I prefer the idea of modeling the Ascensions after the Become the Crisis system. After taking the perk, you then have to acquire points via decisions, Projects, events, etc. to progress to higher returns. For example, start with only a small population of Cyborgs/Latents/Genetic Primes. The Trait itself is weak, but levels of the path unlock bonuses for pops with it.

 

[GOLANX]

I prefer the idea of modeling the Ascensions after the Become the Crisis system. After taking the perk, you then have to acquire points via decisions, Projects, events, etc. to progress to higher returns. For example, start with only a small population of Cyborgs/Latents/Genetic Primes. The Trait itself is weak, but levels of the path unlock bonuses for pops with it.

Other than mod/cyborg/addict to zro my species how would I add points? Become the crisis works because there are a lot of things you can do to build Menace that all makes sense. If there isn't variability to the path then might as well use a Tradition tree (again picking up the ascensionperk first)

 

[TSBasilisk]

Here's a general outline:

After taking the perk, a small number of pops (say 3 or 5) and all Leaders get the basic trait which comes with something like +5% Habitability for Cyborg. Each year a small number of pops will be assimilated. You can accelerate this with Planetary Decisions (which cause unrest with any pops from opposing political parties); construction of a special Building; and an Empire Edict.

While pops are still assimilating you'd also get events related to the process. Some result in Special Projects (pops on X colony are experiencing mutations after gene treatment; figure out what happened!), others are instant choices, and some involve active resistance if the opposing parties are large enough, such as a world with a large Spiritualist population having an uprising if forced to become Cyborgs. Depending on how you handle each step you earn more or less points.

Anomalies and digsites also contribute to some degree. For example, completing the Cybrex precursor chain is worth a tier. Completing them after starting the Ascension will automatically reward the points; the points for any completed prior to the Ascension are backlogged and can be earned in one chunk by completing a Special Project to review past findings.

Cheapo option is also to just spend special resources to fund the process. Takes a hefty chunk of investment.

At different intervals you unlock empire bonuses which increase the effectiveness of your trait. Once you reach the final tier, all remaining pops in the empire are converted.

---

In general, I think the Ascensions deserve a complete makeover, both to balance them better and to create some more engaging mid-game content.

 

[GOLANX]

Here's a general outline:

After taking the perk, a small number of pops (say 3 or 5) and all Leaders get the basic trait which comes with something like +5% Habitability for Cyborg. Each year a small number of pops will be assimilated. You can accelerate this with Planetary Decisions (which cause unrest with any pops from opposing political parties); construction of a special Building; and an Empire Edict.

Medical Workers Should actively increase that assimilation speed, applying cybernetics just becomes part of the Medical Field, any new buildings is a lot more work, work the devs don't want to put in to a DLC where they won't see a return on investment.

While pops are still assimilating you'd also get events related to the process. Some result in Special Projects (pops on X colony are experiencing mutations after gene treatment; figure out what happened!), others are instant choices, and some involve active resistance if the opposing parties are large enough, such as a world with a large Spiritualist population having an uprising if forced to become Cyborgs. Depending on how you handle each step you earn more or less points.

I'd rather ethics not play a role, Spiritualist belief in the soul means that it continues after death, it's logical to believe that your soul could transfer into the new body with Synth Ascension. Having an Ascension perk that could completely destabilize your empire just isn't a good fit.

Anomalies and digsites also contribute to some degree. For example, completing the Cybrex precursor chain is worth a tier. Completing them after starting the Ascension will automatically reward the points; the points for any completed prior to the Ascension are backlogged and can be earned in one chunk by completing a Special Project to review past findings.

RNG precursors and Digsites requiring players to Scum for the right start is also a really bad idea x2 because Cybrex is already one of the good precursors. Also you can't require a person to own 1 DLC to Complete another, Ancient Relics and Utopia.

Cheapo option is also to just spend special resources to fund the process. Takes a hefty chunk of investment.

That just sounds like a resource sink

At different intervals you unlock empire bonuses which increase the effectiveness of your trait. Once you reach the final tier, all remaining pops in the empire are converted.

All pops should have been converted long before you hit that milestone

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In general, I think the Ascensions deserve a complete makeover, both to balance them better and to create some more engaging mid-game content.

Wishful thinking. As I said Before Ascensions are part of their best selling DLC any further work won't see a return on Investment so a time and money consuming makeover of any Systems in Utopia is largely just wasted to their accounting department.

Traditions are still a good bit of work whose odds are long we will ever see but simpler is better here and that they would be. Assimilation might and I stress might get a look at as a system that can be used in the base game and its expansions.

 

[Thecarlocarlone]

Partly agree and disagree.
Some ascension perks are so underwelming that they should be placed as tradition tree.

Other ascension perks, especially those who can deeply change your playthrough shouldn't.


For example:
a tradition tree about administration? yes please
a tradition tree about envoys and vassals? yes please
a tradition tree about spirituality and sacred world? maybe
a tradition tree about terraforming and gaia world? no. Let gaia world stay as an ascension perk