As Poland, I turned away a 6/6/6 leader ...

[Dominion]

I also followed a path Arumba explored

Sweet summer child

I raised my army to force limit, split it in half, then rented half to Novogrod while using the other as a reserve and to increase professionalism. Every so often I'd switch them out. Novogrod was always fighting someone, never refused the offer, and the money was very helpful early game where I seemed to suffer a bit from insufficient funds.

Poland farms Lübeck.

Grab a Livonian province (or more, if AE allows it) to get access to Riga, fabricate, DoW with Lübeck as co-belligerent, siege down trade members, cash out.

Rinse and repeat ad infinitum. Nets you 2000 on average early on and about 15000 midgame, assuming the bunch still exists.

1. Is it worth it to Westernize? I'm not doing a WC and my primary goal is to expand eastward and take over Muscovy/Russia. Another option is to try and early game roll into the Ottomans by allying with Byzantium.

Westernization got replaced by institutions.
If you're playing on an older patch then yes, you should westernize. Pretty much mandatory.
Really glad we got a decent replacement for tenous tentacle tactics.

2. I'm currently running 8/6/4 armies. I have two and they seem invincible (obviously, I'm not chasing a stack of 30 with these). Mid-game, I was thinking of adding two more cavalry. I feel like Poland could pull this off and ducat for ducat, it would result in a more powerful army (and, yeah, winged hussars on the map.) Assuming I'm going for Noble Knights and Finest of Horses, too.

Depends on mil tech level.
Early cannons give you nothing. Your biggest concern is to always outflank. Max combat width infantry with a few cav (more cav than usual, since you're Poland) and one or two cannons for sieges are the ideal stack.

Cannons start hitting somewhere around tech15.

For comparison: I'm running around as Hisn Kayfa and have a force limit of 29.
Three of my units are cannons. Had them since tech6. A bit excessive for some, but I like a 10% cannon ratio early on.
I'm considering buying two more once my FL doubles, but that's it.

Your ratio is 30%. Way too much for earlier techs, way too little for later ones.

I'm considering taking espionage

Please don't.

Ever.

 

[Ironside121]

I wanted to do an update in case anyone was interested:

I did two starts, and in both the alternatives were the Jagiellon or a very high stat Polish noble. In both cases I chose the Jagiellon - thanks for the help! - because what became really clear to me was how poor Lithuania's provinces are. Supply limit alone is ... painful.

On the upside, Polish cavalry. Yeah. By the time I got winged hussars, my armies could roll over the enemy. I revoked Moldavia's march and annexed them easily (raised their opinion to 200, revoked march, waited ten years and repeated to annex). By 1462, I had Cossacks and then had the +20 Cavalry combat bonus. I also followed a path Arumba explored during his last Poland game where he rented out his armies to Novogrod. I raised my army to force limit, split it in half, then rented half to Novogrod while using the other as a reserve and to increase professionalism. Every so often I'd switch them out. Novogrod was always fighting someone, never refused the offer, and the money was very helpful early game where I seemed to suffer a bit from insufficient funds.

All that fighting on Novogrod's behalf did give me enough Army Tradition to get a passable general with two shock pips. At that point I could begin to expand without problem. Then I decided to restart this afternoon to make it more efficient.

So if I can ask two more questions:

1. Is it worth it to Westernize? I'm not doing a WC and my primary goal is to expand eastward and take over Muscovy/Russia. Another option is to try and early game roll into the Ottomans by allying with Byzantium.

2. I'm currently running 8/6/4 armies. I have two and they seem invincible (obviously, I'm not chasing a stack of 30 with these). Mid-game, I was thinking of adding two more cavalry. I feel like Poland could pull this off and ducat for ducat, it would result in a more powerful army (and, yeah, winged hussars on the map.) Assuming I'm going for Noble Knights and Finest of Horses, too.

I'm considering taking espionage for the Noble Loyalty Act (it is +20% combat ability) but that would be the ONLY reason I'd take it and that seems kind of a waste of idea points just to get 20% Cavalry Combat Ability. But it is 20% and totaled with my other buffs would give me almost 100% CCA. Do people think it's worth it?

Thanks again for your help earlier.

There is no westernization, now we just have Institutions, which are always worth getting. You will be stuck with Eastern Units for the rest of the game. Spamming Cav too hard as Poland is not a good idea, as you don't have the ratio to sustain it. Any losses in Infantry will screw you over, add more infantry in, they're more cost effective anyway, and can fill out combat width. This will be why you're struggling with money, too much cav.

Espionage isn't really worth it except for trolling on MP to be honest. And even then it does nothing for your nation, just your ego

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Westernization got replaced by institutions.
If you're playing on an older patch then yes, you should westernize. Pretty much mandatory.
Really glad we got a decent replacement for tenous tentacle tactics.

Westernization is only valid in the patches before clicking the button to do it instantly from holding a city was a thing for Eastern/Ottoman tech. Debatable even then after unit rework.

 

[Dominion]

Westernization is only valid in the patches before clicking the button to do it instantly from holding a city was a thing for Eastern/Ottoman tech. Debatable even then after unit rework.

I'd argue it was more effective as any asian nation to completely ignore blobbing and go straight through Egypt into Europe to westernize before slapping everyone around your powerbase until they lost all senses.

Which is neither interesting nor fun for something that's the most effective strategy available.

 

[wingren013]

1. Is it worth it to Westernize?

What patch are you playing on???

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'd argue it was more effective as any asian nation to completely ignore blobbing and go straight through Egypt into Europe to westernize before slapping everyone around your powerbase until they lost all senses.

Which is neither interesting nor fun for something that's the most effective strategy available.

I meant for the good/European non-western groups. Start going Muslim and below, where "western focus" isn't even an option, and it becomes increasingly obvious and necessary under the old rules.

Alternatives To Egypt were using Shirvan to vassal --> annex into Europe and for NE Asians to colonize NE, conquer Mexico, then dump a colony next to Portugal in Caribbean. This was pre-corruption so unbalanced tech with burst research had less opportunity cost too.

 

[IrishGirl]

What patch are you playing on???

I'm playing on the current patch with all the DLC.

I made a mistake. I apologize.

 

[Paxter Redwyne]

I decided to try playing Poland myself and chose 6/6/6 ruler over Personal Union. I managed to conquer Teutonic Order without much problem and allied myself with Saxony when Brandenburg unwisely attacked them and took Neumark and Sternberg from poor Hohenzollerns. I didn't attacked Lithuania yet as they allied themselves with Muscovy, but funnily when they were fighting Ottomans, as a Great Power I intervened and joined Ottomans side and conquered three provinces from them.
My lucky 6/6/6 king ruled until 1506 and was succeeded by his 16 years old heir(my first heir predeceased him).
Playing Poland without union with Lithuania is different, but is still pretty enjoyable. Of course, choosing PU with Lithuania is more preferable, but alone, Poland is still quite strong.