Don't forget the impact of having "extra" districts required affecting Empire Sprawl. Fewer districts is usually better, especially early in the game when you have way, way more important things to focus on then admin cap.
As of tomorrow, the Clerk is no longer the worst job ...
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We shall Sea 
Rest assured once Aquatics is out the door we'll be watching for peoples thoughts once it's in their hands.
Rest assured once Aquatics is out the door we'll be watching for peoples thoughts once it's in their hands.- 5
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100 minutes and counting!We shall Sea
How long have you wanted to drop that pun?We shall Sea
Anything you have your eye on that you hope people notice (and enjoy)?
this food centric focus is probably going to become really bad midgame. when u start selling 200 food a month the price is going to tank to the point ur just wasting food.
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You can always just trade it directly. AIs will almost certainly give you a deal that's much more favorable to you than the galactic market.
The obvious combination is with catalytic processing though. Doesn't seem particularly strong either however, two civics for a seemingly rather small overall bonus.
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I've made up my mind, I won't play with this civic. I think people forget about the opportunity cost for the civic slot. You could take any other solid and good civic and skip this mediocre one for greater benefit.We shall Sea
e.g:
1. Go for catalytic to remove the burden of minerals from alloys (and the lack of mineral districts - besides you will have extra agricultural ones on oceans, so the uncapping is not that great) and be ok with just space mining.
2. Go for meritocracy for a stacking bonus with the hydro ascencion perk and the aquatic race trait.
3. Go for something else, like distinguished admirality
imo it doesn't make sense that pearl divers use minerals. they don't convert random materials into pearls after all - they dive down into the sea and collect them. if anything, they might even produce some minerals on top of the CG and trade (representing other random useful stuff they find while searching for pearls)
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The AI overvalues food in its production planning and bilateral trades to a really dysfunctional extent, so I don't think this is a good basis for balancing other aspects of the game.
1. AI makes way too much food and ends up selling the surplus on the Galactic Market, depressing the price, often to <1 buy price even with the 30% fee.
2. You as a human player buy food off the market, for your own purposes but also to trade to the AI for a net profit, because despite the depressed market price, the AI thinks food is still worth 1.5+ energy (or comparable amounts of whatever else you want) in a bilateral trade with a friendly empire.
3. Because the AI still has too much food, it sells that food onto the market again, for much less value than whatever it paid you.
Result: AI gets outright scammed, losing resources for no gain whatsoever, with the profits going to the player, plus the shadowy cabal that collects "market fees".
Sadly it seems even Starnet AI has been unable to completely fix this problem. Ideally the AI would take into account market prices in bilateral trade, and never pay more than it could get from the market. But failing that, at least fix whatever inflated value of food is currently in the code.
You missed a trick; you should have said, "We shell sea."We shall Sea
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There is a feature and balance of angler and catalytic procesing. That catalytic procesing is just worse than metallurgy unless you are killing people to get that new ship. If PDX make catalytic 8f for 3a it would be fine.
As for Pearl Divers, they are kinda bad, but also it is a free job like servant. Them being specialist is bad. Saving districts for more energy is ok.
As for Pearl Divers, they are kinda bad, but also it is a free job like servant. Them being specialist is bad. Saving districts for more energy is ok.
You missed a trick; you should have said, "We shell sea."
But isn't "We shell sea." the crew motto of deluge colossus?
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It's not a free job.
It's a job that cost you:
- 1 Permanent Civic Slot,
- 1 farmer Job per district (the other becoming the more efficient angler, but not THAT efficient), wich is equivalent as half a district job per wasted job on a planet.
Also, for thoses who say "Yes but it's good in early game", I would agree... IF WE COULD SWAP IT MID GAME! But this civics is somehow considered on par with Fanatical Purifier, Barbaric Despoiler or Rogue Servitor, it can not be removed after the start of the game.
Maybe something is possible with that civics if you build it with Catalytic, Necrophages (for less food consumption on main species), Aquatic (All basic prod bonuses & Adaptability) and Phototrophic (for again, less food consumption), but that would be a LOT of investment, and I'm not sure it would be that efficient compared to have, let's say, the same food oriented build, but with meritocracy in place of Angler, so that you capitalise more on the final product than on the food prod, wich will always be far over the top. Anglers would make the build more pop efficient tho, I agree, but then peark diver would still feel like a third wheel to me. And on mid-late game, I think I would prefer a planet with more farmer than a planet with less angler. And as I said, you can not remove this civics. And if I wanted to play with an impossible to remove civics that would give me massive bonus, again, I would go with Inward Perfection, not Anglers... who don't give anything massive.
It would be totally different if this civics was removable, or if Pearl Diver wasn't a specialist job (Slavery, Oh!), if it wasn't mandatory for it to take Aquatics (the game force you to be Aquatic to take it, even if written nowhere), if it could pair with Agrarian Idyll or if Pearl Diver maintenance cost wasn't the one of a fucking sassy princess!
I mean, in reality, to grow a pearl, you need food for the oyster, I agree, but you need a fucking GRAIN OF SAND for it to make the pearl (and a lot of time). Where are thoses two minerals coming from? And that's counting as if the pearl were cultivated, not that people "dive to search them".
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i agree specialist use 0.75 more consumergoods its not balanced also get huge political power vs worker
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u dont feed clams u just dive and pickupfree pearls. it should be free upkeep
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Pearl divers aren't a free job, if we got two anglers then they would be a free job. It would likely make the civic worth taking if everything else remained as is. I don't know if I would necessarily care for it, since you'd like either need to go trade centric to avoid producing too much food or go catalytic process to make use of all excess food that results from trying get enough CGs without having artisans. Heck, maybe it would work well enough with mastercrafters, feels like a civic where if your not having anyone work artificers, it's probably not worth the slot, but the moment you're getting artificers, it's totally worth the slot. Then again, I'm iffy on this because it's not a bad thing for different civics to favor different setups, since variety is the spice of life.
Since pearl divers are the second job provided by the district, it's just horribly inefficient and going to cause players issue at the start of the game when pops are your biggest bottle neck and you don't exactly have either the pops or minerals to justify having to overproduce food in order to get the CGs you need. I also want point out that the aquatics trait does nothing for your TV from both pops working that district, it only helps to boost the angler's food output from 8 to 8.8 and does nothing for the pearly diver. If aquatics trait also impacted pearl diver output and trade value (be that just for anglers and pearl divers or for all pops), maybe this would work a tiny bit better.
Unironicaly, the only use I would see for Anglers would be on a rush build, wich would lend me toward Angler > Catalytic > Clone Army and build around that...
And I'm pretty sure it would be less efficient than some of the build already out there.
Edit: let me make an all rounder comparison:
Angler Empire:
- 2 Farming District: 12 Foods, 6 CG, 8 TV, - 2 Minerals, 4 pops
- 1 Miner: 6 Minerals, 1 pop
Total: 12 Foods, 6CG, 8TV, 2 minerals, -5 pops
Standard Empire (with no buff on any of the mentionned points):
- 1 Farming District: 12 Foods, 2 pops
- 1 Miner: 6 Minerals, 1 pop
- 1 Artisan: 6 CG, - 6 minerals, 1 pop
Total: 12 Foods, 6 CG, -4 pops.
Basically, the full use of the Angler civics would give you 2 minerals & 8 TV for the cost of 1 pop and 1 more district. Consider this didn't take in account admin cap and pop consumption. So sure, it's possible to build around it, would I do so ? Probably not. Is it good? You judge, but I think not. And remind you can't change it after the start of the game, so that's a permanent choice.
And I'm pretty sure it would be less efficient than some of the build already out there.
Edit: let me make an all rounder comparison:
Angler Empire:
- 2 Farming District: 12 Foods, 6 CG, 8 TV, - 2 Minerals, 4 pops
- 1 Miner: 6 Minerals, 1 pop
Total: 12 Foods, 6CG, 8TV, 2 minerals, -5 pops
Standard Empire (with no buff on any of the mentionned points):
- 1 Farming District: 12 Foods, 2 pops
- 1 Miner: 6 Minerals, 1 pop
- 1 Artisan: 6 CG, - 6 minerals, 1 pop
Total: 12 Foods, 6 CG, -4 pops.
Basically, the full use of the Angler civics would give you 2 minerals & 8 TV for the cost of 1 pop and 1 more district. Consider this didn't take in account admin cap and pop consumption. So sure, it's possible to build around it, would I do so ? Probably not. Is it good? You judge, but I think not. And remind you can't change it after the start of the game, so that's a permanent choice.
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There could be the case that the whole set is just bad.
From Angler + Pearl Diver you get 8f +4TV +3cg-2m-2f .
Assume 1f=1e=0.66m, 1cg=2e. 1tv=1e. Total 13e.
Upgrade buildings exist, and they make 1energy district into 2x8e. Which is already better than angler set.
There are extra factors, it is easier to specialize 1 planet in energy, TV, CG, food. Than having mix of everything.
Edicts could really ramp efficiency of energy/minerals/food.
TV could be hard to work with early game (trade routes).
With 1 civic slot you can do something, like Master Crafter, Miners guild, Merchant Guilds + consumer benefit.
Anglers is so balanced, but balance is overrated. Can we get the fun version?
From Angler + Pearl Diver you get 8f +4TV +3cg-2m-2f .
Assume 1f=1e=0.66m, 1cg=2e. 1tv=1e. Total 13e.
Upgrade buildings exist, and they make 1energy district into 2x8e. Which is already better than angler set.
There are extra factors, it is easier to specialize 1 planet in energy, TV, CG, food. Than having mix of everything.
Edicts could really ramp efficiency of energy/minerals/food.
TV could be hard to work with early game (trade routes).
With 1 civic slot you can do something, like Master Crafter, Miners guild, Merchant Guilds + consumer benefit.
Anglers is so balanced, but balance is overrated. Can we get the fun version?
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AFAIK, reforming to megacorp fixes that particular problem.
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No, Anglers is also a Megacorp civic so you keep it.
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