As of tomorrow, the Clerk is no longer the worst job ...
- Thread starter theBigTurnip385
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What’s bad about the pearl diver? I’ve not kept up too much with Aquatics beyond the new species art.
It's a +3 CG, +2 trade value job. You get one for free on ag. districts on wet worlds with the right civic:
It's not a spectacular job, but as it's a CG producer without dedicated upkeep it isn't bad. Is it worth the civic slot on its own? Definitely not, but alongside an improved version of farmers those farming worlds will be nearly self-sufficient. Combined with Catalytic Processing I see it being a pretty powerful civic.
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It is a specialist job that costs 2 food and 2 minerals and produces 3 consumer goods and 2 trades.
It is garbage and yes a Clerk is better than it
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it has dedcicated upkeep as you will find out tomorrow, it costs 2 food + 2 minerals so which is why it is worse than a clerk, it is also a specialist so it has 0.5 consumer good upkeep cost.
An Anglers farm district jobs cost 4 food + 2 minerals + 0.75 CG , only one of them produces food, have fun running Catalytic Processing with that.
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If that's the case, wouldn't you just turn off all the pearl diver jobs and get super efficient farmers? You'll have unlimited farm districts on ocean worlds so it could be ok. But yeah, it does seem silly to add a terrible job no one will use to a civic.
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You'd get extra output per food producing worker (+33% at base level, +25% with the upgraded food building), but only get one per district. So it costs extra minerals, time and admin cap.
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Do you know which set (if any) of +% job output bonuses apply to pearl divers?
The more I see about the Angler's civic the more I dislike it and the more I have to ask what the hell the devs were thinking. The civic is literally going to be one of those roleplay civics that people either get trapped by because they don't understand just how poorly designed it is or they knowingly take it, being aware that they are gimping their empire.
If you need consumer goods you're better off either going with artisans or artificers jobs or pure trade. I'm pretty sure given how inefficient the job is, you are probably handicapping yourself if you are relying on those jobs to avoid having industrial districts make consumer goods because it's likely far more food than even a catalytic processing empire needs. This is also factoring that currently catalytic converters is a crap civic for any empire that needs trade goods (you have better options and it's just not really efficient). I was really hoping that Anglers and catalytic processing would have been a good synergy setup.
Also Stefan Anon was poking around and unless they do a last minute change, the hydroponics building will only give you one Angler, not two. He is using an earlier build, so maybe that nonsense has been fixed.
Regardless, Anglers is like a really, really, really bad version of mastercrafters.
If you need consumer goods you're better off either going with artisans or artificers jobs or pure trade. I'm pretty sure given how inefficient the job is, you are probably handicapping yourself if you are relying on those jobs to avoid having industrial districts make consumer goods because it's likely far more food than even a catalytic processing empire needs. This is also factoring that currently catalytic converters is a crap civic for any empire that needs trade goods (you have better options and it's just not really efficient). I was really hoping that Anglers and catalytic processing would have been a good synergy setup.
Also Stefan Anon was poking around and unless they do a last minute change, the hydroponics building will only give you one Angler, not two. He is using an earlier build, so maybe that nonsense has been fixed.
Regardless, Anglers is like a really, really, really bad version of mastercrafters.
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These kind of jobs hurt the AI significantly more than the player and are a big part of why the power gap between player and AI has continued to grow since 2.2. I turn off clerks and other undesirable jobs whenever I can, especially since 3.0; the AI can't and won't, thus wasting pops when they are already behind on growing and acquiring more.
There are also no ways to prevent the AI from picking these "roleplay" options.
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Pearl Divers are specialists so they get specialist bonuses applying to them
Very quick and rough number crunching, based on the numbers given above and taking no modifiers into account, the net output of each agriculture district is trading -6 food, -2 minerals for +2.75 CG, +4 Trade Value. I wouldn't call it horrific, but seems pretty bleh to me. Before this thread I thought the civic was just replacing farmers with anglers, so you'd still 2 per district plus the pearl diver. Would be a lot better if that was the case IMO. A shame, I kinda like agriculture-focused builds like Agrarian Idyll, was looking forward to trying anglers.
It took way too much work to verify this statement... yeah ok that's not great, and "Pearl Diver" really doesn't imply something that should have mineral upkeep.
That's definitely the read I was getting of it. It looks like they changed the civic description fairly late on to clear that up (I'm only seeing a new version on the recent Feature Highlight video).
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Job category not stratum, I mean. Do they count as farmers? Artisans?
it's an additional job, the pearl diver is not replacing the artisan just like the death chronicler is not replacing the priest/death priest
Wait, the civic cuts all farmers and only gives one angler? I mean, I know that's what it says, but I assumed that was a typo.
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Yes, but like how Death Chroniclers count as Culture Workers for the purpose of determining which output/upkeep modifiers apply to them, I'm wondering which job category Pearl Divers are in for the purpose of modifiers. Mostly because if they're still in the Farmer job category since they replace a farmer job, then the high +output% modifiers available to farmers make the job better than it looks.
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now i see
can't tell anything about that, but it would make more sense to treat them as artisans as they produce cg and are also specialists. anglers replace farmers, pearl divers are an addition to that (though it also does seems legit to be seeing it as if both of them are replacing farmers)
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TBH I assume pearl divers will be changed, either already for the release or in some patch pretty soon after. Unless they do get something weird like getting farmer bonuses but to consumer goods. That could make them pretty ok actually I’d think. It’d be pretty inconsistent with the rest of the game, but I’m not necessarily opposed to that.
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I figure it makes at least as much sense as, say, Gas Extractors getting miner bonuses. Pearl diving is basically a kind of hunting, and Titan Hunters already count as farmers.
Let's see...
Count as farmers:
- Agri-Worlds: +25% output = +0.75 CGs
- Food Processing building: +1/2 food
- Turns out the farmer output techs specifically only increase food output though, so this isn't quite as good as I had thought
- Farming Subsidies: +50% output = +1.5 CGs; -1 minerals, -1/0.5/0 food (depending of food building level)
- Factory Worlds: You don't want to waste districts on them
- Factory building: +1/2 CGs & -1/2 minerals (not like you don't have room for one on a farming world)
- Ministry of Production: +15% output = +0.45/0.6/0.75 CGs (depending on factory building)
- 2x Artisan output techs: +10% output = +0.3/0.4/0.5 CGs each (depending on factory building)
- Industrial Subsidies: +10% output = +0.3/0.4/0.5 CGs each (depending on factory building); -1 energy
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