On paradox store - its happen at this time - they promote something we in germany dont will get. Thats not allowed in germany
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As a person living in Germany, I won't buy this.
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It's not. We have certain laws for certain stuff. When other people use §86 for games, which is wrong, it isn't our fault.
It's not, because there isn't a law, which predetermine a geo lock.
I'm an importer and trader for certain stuff, where some of this symbols or other stuff can occur (historical table-top) and I know, what I'm doing.
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If it's so, than it's even funnier. Why locking the whole game and not the DLC? The DLC, without the skulls, could be even sold separately for 2 bucks or something similar in Germany, if it's rated 18+.
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I wont drive to another country to activate the real history.
I want to play HOI 4 because of the historical setting and this setting is completely destroyed when i cant see swastikas or have a leader like Hiller...
The German Law is strict, but not like this.
I hope its moddable, otherwise I spend too much money for crap.
Sorry paradox, I love your games, you are one of the best game developers at the moment, a kind of the early blizzard team and I hope I still like you after the 6th June!
I want to play HOI 4 because of the historical setting and this setting is completely destroyed when i cant see swastikas or have a leader like Hiller...
The German Law is strict, but not like this.
I hope its moddable, otherwise I spend too much money for crap.
Sorry paradox, I love your games, you are one of the best game developers at the moment, a kind of the early blizzard team and I hope I still like you after the 6th June!
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VPN, another IP.... why?
i cant see the problem.
if u pre-ordering that game at paradoxplaza, cancel it !
buy the german version at steam.
play without nazi stuff or search, a few days after release, for some mods and u will get all pics, events and flags like in the international version.
thats how i handle it after paradox give me the money back.
i cant see the problem.
if u pre-ordering that game at paradoxplaza, cancel it !
buy the german version at steam.
play without nazi stuff or search, a few days after release, for some mods and u will get all pics, events and flags like in the international version.
thats how i handle it after paradox give me the money back.
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So... it's not illegal to region lock, which was my point all along.
That's nice, but irrelevant in this discussion.
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BTW, here is an official statement on this by BjornB:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dear-paradox-sadly-i-cant-buy-hoi-4.934479/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/dear-paradox-sadly-i-cant-buy-hoi-4.934479/
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Not illegal, but unnecessary and an overreaction.
Why not? I have to know the law, otherwise I could be thrown into the jail. For example: It's forbidden for me to show the decal sheets in the publicity, but I can sell them without a harm in the packing.
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I think they are not directly blocking the game, but access to said DLC. Which Steam interprets as two different versions, which are not exchangeable. My best guess.
They're blocking the acces to the game itself as stated by BjornB in the closed thread from yesterday.
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This is what PDS doesn't want to deal with.
So they went the safe route: their games don't show any banned content in Germany at all.
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That's not the problem for me at all. I have a problem with the geo lock. It's forbidden to advertise and distribute a game within Germany which symbols like the swastika, but the ownership of such games or toys is allowed, as long as you don't use them for propaganda. So an import would be legal.
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You are wrong here, Zaku. There are several ways were EU-law beats national law. for example EU-enactments and EU-directives.
Also, the EuGH usually beats every national court except for constitutional questions.
There is litereally NO German law that asks for geoblocks. It is a publisher decision to do that, and it will cost Paradox A LOT of money and enrage many of their fans.
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You are right about directives, I concur about that, but the article wasn't a directive only an initiative and it also had a point that made some exceptions possible.
Even so my point from the first post of mine that geo locking is not illegal is still true. It is the safest legal move that ensures that the german laws are adhered.
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The article you quoted was German criminal law. There is no EU-criminal law.
The thing people are unsure about is, whether EU-principles of free trade and anti-discrimination override German criminal law.
I'm not sure myself, but there is a possibility that those people might be right. The problem would be, that there is afaik no court decision to this topic.
So I agree, that from PDX standpoint, geolocking might be the safest route, but it is still questionable and potentially illegal. In any case it hits customers over the head and created massive negative publicity in the German fanbase. And from what I see, the German market is a very big and important one for games like that.
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No, it was from an EU initiative the other person linked.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...mmerce-and-digital-innovation-says-Parliament
This is for the lawmakers and for the judges to decide. Right now it's usually the nations's laws that are more authoritative. EU is pretty fractured and powerless on this issue tbh.
The legality of this issue was my point all along. Potentially illegal does not matter until it becomes factually illegal. As BjornB said, they will change the packaging when that happens to adhere to the law.
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I couldnt care less about the censored parts.. Its Paradox's game. They decide what they want in or not for whatever reason.
What's annoying me is that they only found out that they will geoblock their own game 2 Weeks prior to release and then telling us that no key besides the Steam will work for Germany.
Now we have to fight with GMG, Pdox Store and so on to get it refunded. Then rebuy it on Steam.
Just because P'dox decided to not to inform people about their actions and simply open up Preorders. Even their own spam mail points at the P'dox store instead of Steam.
What happens if you dont notice it till after release?
I only saw it because i randomly checked the Hoi4 thanks to the Stellaris patch..
GMG says
What's annoying me is that they only found out that they will geoblock their own game 2 Weeks prior to release and then telling us that no key besides the Steam will work for Germany.
Now we have to fight with GMG, Pdox Store and so on to get it refunded. Then rebuy it on Steam.
Just because P'dox decided to not to inform people about their actions and simply open up Preorders. Even their own spam mail points at the P'dox store instead of Steam.
What happens if you dont notice it till after release?
I only saw it because i randomly checked the Hoi4 thanks to the Stellaris patch..
GMG says
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This is exactly the Problem, i want to have the free choice with Version i want to Play. For example i have the German Version of Wolfenstein the New Order. Dont have any Problem why the dont use Swastika and the Nazis are called ,,the Regime,,. It was my free choice to Play like this, i was not force in it,like now in HOI4.
The pure portrait of Hitler is forbidden in Germany. Even though it does not say anything of portraits in §86 or §86a StGB, the courts see it like that.
Since people now might say, that I am wrong, here one important litigation: http://www.judicialis.de/Oberlandesgericht-München_4-St-RR-142-06_Beschluss_07.08.2006.html
It is just in German, but maybe the most important sentence:
"In todays judiciary, which this court is connecting to, the portrait of Adolf Hitler is unconstitutional in the sense of §86a StGB. It does not matter, if Hitler is portrait as Führer (Leader) of the NSDAP, as Reichskanzler (chancellor) or as Head of State. Further more it is irrelevant, if you can see a Hakenkreuz (swastika), the main symbol of the NSDAP, or see him raising his arm to the Deutschen Gruß (german salute, Hitler salute).
[...] Just his portrait is seen as unconstitutional in the sense of $86a StGB."
Further more I would add personally, that games are not seen as an "cultural important good" (even though movies are), so there is no exception for games. Even more in Paradox games people might be able to see the war and the person of Hitler getting glorificated.
I personally have no problem with seeing Hitler as a shadow and to be honest, if I see people saying they will not buy the game, because of Geolock they will not be able to see the portrait of Hitler (even though you could mod it), I think the law is totally in the right place.
Since people now might say, that I am wrong, here one important litigation: http://www.judicialis.de/Oberlandesgericht-München_4-St-RR-142-06_Beschluss_07.08.2006.html
It is just in German, but maybe the most important sentence:
"In todays judiciary, which this court is connecting to, the portrait of Adolf Hitler is unconstitutional in the sense of §86a StGB. It does not matter, if Hitler is portrait as Führer (Leader) of the NSDAP, as Reichskanzler (chancellor) or as Head of State. Further more it is irrelevant, if you can see a Hakenkreuz (swastika), the main symbol of the NSDAP, or see him raising his arm to the Deutschen Gruß (german salute, Hitler salute).
[...] Just his portrait is seen as unconstitutional in the sense of $86a StGB."
Further more I would add personally, that games are not seen as an "cultural important good" (even though movies are), so there is no exception for games. Even more in Paradox games people might be able to see the war and the person of Hitler getting glorificated.
I personally have no problem with seeing Hitler as a shadow and to be honest, if I see people saying they will not buy the game, because of Geolock they will not be able to see the portrait of Hitler (even though you could mod it), I think the law is totally in the right place.
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As a person who brags about owning a import/export firm you kind of fail to understand how it works.
To import smth to Germany you need to have a german branch or do so to a third party. This party acts under strict german law of propagating nazi symbols, quotes, songs and so on. So you are also wrong only referring to swastika.
It is clear that you have no intention to conduct a informed discussion, only to troll.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a Read the wiki page at least.
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