As a person living in Germany, I won't buy this.

[Amaror]

I read these forums and it is frightening how few of the germans know their law. Please read the link before you respond, but in the law it says: if you sell these type of games with certain symbols, quotes, songs etc (please read the law before you respond, it is very clearly what it says), you can make jail time. It is a criminal law.
So if Paradox sells you by mistake these kind of quotes, signs, uniforms etc, they can be sued.
Paradox has no fault, the fact that you whine on the forums without knowing how hard, chinese like (although China can buy the uncensored game, wow, less than China), german government censors is troubling.

Paradox is forced to geolock by the laws. Inform yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a : as introduction

What is frightening to me is how often non-germans pretend to know german law better than actual germans.
You know that article you put in your post? Did you actually read it? Because it states that these are the symbols that are affected by it:

• the Swastika as a symbol of the Nazi Party, prohibited in all variants, including mirrored, inverted etc.
• a stylized Celtic cross, prohibited as a symbol of the VSBD/PdA and in the variant used by the White Power movement. The legal status of the symbol used in non-political contexts is uncertain, but non-political use is not acted upon in practice.[6]
• the solar cross as a symbol of the Ku Klux Klan
• the Sig rune as used by the SS
• the Sturmabteilung emblem
• the legal status of the Othala rune is disputed; prohibited as a symbol of the Hitler-Jugend/Wiking-Jugend
• the Wolfsangel as used by the Hitlerjugend and Junge Front
• Gauwinkel badges (2002)[7]
• Reichskriegsflagge: prohibited in the Third Reich version including a swastika; the 1867–1921 version without swastika is prohibited when it is the focal point of a display or disrupts political order
• the "Heil Hitler" greeting (1970)[8]
• the "Sieg Heil" greeting (1990)[9]
• Unsere/Meine Ehre heißt Treue, along with the Totenkopf symbol, as the motto of the Waffen-SS and Mit deutschem Gruß as the verbal equivalent of the Hitler salute.[10]
• the Horst-Wessel-Lied (the anthem of the Nazi Party) and Unsre Fahne flattert uns voran (a song of the Hitler-Jugend) (1991)[11]
• the ISIL/ISIS/IS variant of the jihadi Black Standard flag[12]

None of these are in the international version of HoI 4. So you are wrong.
They are not forced in any way to geolock this game.

 

[BobbyDylan]

Agreed. PDS shouls sell the German version in Germany, but allow for "international" versions to be played in germany. Then, anyone with a VPN can get the game they want, and PDS's hands are clean.

 

[GsusNSV]

None of these are in the international version of HoI 4.

"along with the Totenkopf symbol, as the motto of the Waffen-SS"

So the differences are: [...]
- SS generals have no skulls on their caps

Your argument is invalid

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

The reason why geo-locks weren't standard in the past is that digital distribution was a minority of sales. Now it's the vast majority. If they don't apply a geo-lock, game developers risk being fined and forced to implement mandatory standards, which I guarantee will be a much worse alternative.

I trust the decision of someone at Paradox whose livelihood depends on getting the legal details correct over someone who is obsessed with being wrong.

"It's good for me, because only the Germans will have a mandatory standard, not me". Thanks for you compassion...

Geo lock is unnecessary and kicks the EU law. That's the opinion of the EU parliament: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...mmerce-and-digital-innovation-says-Parliament

 

[Terh Rumnatarn]

Omg, no Paradox isn't forced to apply a geo lock.

HoI II: No geo lock.
HoI III: No geo lock.
Panzer Corps: No geo lock.

Paradox does not have at the time the infrastructure to abide the german law when selling the original version - "pre-order" (outside steam).
The fact that you are comparing different released games with a pre-order says a lot.
Wait until launch, and then complain that your game is geolocked. Atm only the pre-order has this problem. It may be that the released game won't have that.

The fact that you are not enraged that your laws degrade your freedom under Africa and China is frightening. And in your mind Paradox is still the culprit. Wow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Paradox does not have at the time the infrastructure to abide the german law when selling the original version - "pre-order" (outside steam).
The fact that you are comparing different released games with a pre-order says a lot.
Wait until launch, and then complain that your game is geolocked. Atm only the pre-order has this problem. It may be that the released game won't have that.

The fact that you are not enraged that your laws degrade your freedom under Africa and China is frightening. And in your mind Paradox is still the culprit. Wow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a

Cleary, you didn't read the posts of BjornB.

 

[Zaku]

"It's good for me, because only the Germans will have a mandatory standard, not me". Thanks for you compassion...

Geo lock is unnecessary and kicks the EU law. That's the opinion of the EU parliament: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...mmerce-and-digital-innovation-says-Parliament

EU parliament doesn't create nor can change German laws.
German laws are higher in Germany then EU laws.

Also this:

"end unjustified geo-blocking practices, so as to improve EU consumers' access to goods and services. MEPs welcome the proposal on cross-border portability of online content services “as a first step” in this direction,"

German law is a justification(in Germany).

 

[frolix42]

"It's good for me, because only the Germans will have a mandatory standard, not me".

Who are you quoting? You aren't making any sense. If Germany implemented explicit standards on digital distribution, it would mainly be worse for Paradox and other developers and distributors, that would mean they would have more hoops to jump through.

Thanks for you compassion...

No, your self-pity doesn't stir my compassion...

Geo lock is unnecessary and kicks the EU law. That's the opinion of the EU parliament: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...mmerce-and-digital-innovation-says-Parliament

You are misinterpreting this non-binding motion by the European Commission to fit your own interest. It says:

end unjustified geo-blocking practices, so as to improve EU consumers' access to goods and services.

The geo-block of the HoI4 is justified, since the uncensored version violates Secion 86. Not only that, you still have access a version of HoI4 which complies with German law.

Ninja'd by @Zaku

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

EU parliamend doesn't create german laws.
German laws are higher in germany then EU laws.

Also this:

"end unjustified geo-blocking practices, so as to improve EU consumers' access to goods and services. MEPs welcome the proposal on cross-border portability of online content services “as a first step” in this direction,"

German law is a justification.

It's legal to import and consume these products in Germany as long as you don't peddle with it in the publicity or use it for propaganda...

There isn't only this one law. We have X laws with X paragraphs and X phrases which "communicate" together. You can't took one law and say: That's the way. That's the reason, why the German law is so extreme and complicate.

 

[GsusNSV]

EU parliamend doesn't create German laws.
German laws are higher in Germany then EU laws.

Also this:

"end unjustified geo-blocking practices, so as to improve EU consumers' access to goods and services. MEPs welcome the proposal on cross-border portability of online content services “as a first step” in this direction,"

German law is a justification.

It gets even better, if you follow “A Digital Single Market Strategy for Europe" (under next steps)

2.3.Preventing unjustified geo-blocking
Sometimes these restrictions on supply [...] can be justified, for instance where the seller needs to comply with specific legal obligations.

Thats what we are talkin about. complying with a german law.

 

[GsusNSV]

It's legal to import and consume these products in Germany as long as you don't peddle with it in the publicity or use it for propaganda...

There isn't only this one law. We have X laws with X paragraphs and X phrases which "communicate" together. You can't took one law and say: That's the way. That's the reason, why the German law is so extreme and complicate.

http://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/Waffen/2016/z95_militaer_do.html
Guy from Poland brought Nazi stuff in the Netherland. Drives trough Germany back to Poland. Gets controlled near Dortmund. German custom finds the SS and Nazi stuff. End of story. everything was sacked.

 

[Fortes241]

Paradox has just make 1 mistake, they have not said, that the version from paradoxplaza cant be activated from a german steam account.
But now they have a German-Version FAQ and all who wants to cancel the pre-ordering, get there money back.
now everyone can buy the game from steam (the same price like on paradoxplaza) and will get 99,9% off the full game.

After some weeks, u can google (maybe use the steam workshop) for the missing pics, events and flags and u get the last 0,1%.
i see no problems.

In German tv it feels like u can see Hitler and the Nazi-Stuff 24h hours , 7 days a week, but its not allowed to see this in a game... strange :/
But thats not paradox fault, no matter how stupid a law is, it is still a low and no one can break it.

so my idea:

- Paradox makes clear, that the version from paradoxplaza didnt work in germany = Check
- Paradox give the pre-order money back to the customers = Still waiting but i think it works
- The Germans buy this Game from Steam (and support Paradox for the fantastic games)
- If someone want the Nazi-stuff, usw google some weeks after release and u will find a mod.


At Paradox, give your german fans a reparation and use the names, from the guys who pre-ordering the game from paradoxplaza, for the German-Aces (Pilots)

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Only the distribution of the uncut version of the game WITHIN Germany is forbidden. The import and consume at home is completely legal. Paradox could apply a geo lock for the digital version, if they want to save themselves, but they could allow the installation of the uncut physical version of HoI IV within Germany.

 

[Terh Rumnatarn]

Cleary, you didn't read the posts of BjornB.

It doesn't state anywhere that in the future you won't be able to buy the german version from other distributors. You won't be able though to buy the OV. Never. And this is wow.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

http://www.zoll.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/Waffen/2016/z95_militaer_do.html
Guy from Poland brought Nazi stuff in the Netherland. Drives trough Germany back to Poland. Gets controlled near Dortmund. German custom finds the SS and Nazi stuff. End of story. everything was sacked.

Certain symbols we're a problem. That's the reason, why the stuff was seized. In HoI IV only the Skull of the SS is such a symbol, not the rest. They could remove this symbol for everyone and no other restrictions would be needed.

 

[Zaku]

There isn't only this one law. We have X laws with X paragraphs and X phrases which "communicate" together. You can't took one law and say: That's the way. That's the reason, why the German law is so extreme and complicate.

Laws are laws. PDS is using the safe route by complying with the laws in Germany to the letter. I'm sure what they are doing is legal, because other games are also region locked in Germany. You can't expect them to throw away a huge market like Germany just for defiance, and it is also not their jobs to fight for a change in german laws.
If you are a German citizen it's YOUR job to change them. Write to your leadership, go on protests. You have every right to do those things.

 

[GsusNSV]

Certain symbols we're a problem. That's the reason, why the stuff was seized. In HoI IV only the Skull of the SS is such a symbol, not the rest. They could remove this symbol for everyone and no other restrictions would be needed.

Of course, they could sell the "german" version everywhere (as the only one available). But I think the reaction would be the same, whith people complaining that they are forced to follow german rules, when they don't have to.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

It doesn't state anywhere that in the future you won't be able to buy the german version from other distributors. You won't be able though to buy the OV. Never. And this is wow.

And I don't want to buy the German version, because I'm allowed to import the uncut version. The laws of the Index apply for games, not the laws for propaganda material.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Of course, they could sell the "german" version everywhere (as the only one available). But I think the reaction would be the same, whith people complaining that they are forced to follow german rules, when they don't have to.

If the game would be the same for everyone, no one would know, that they cut something out.

 

[Tivish]

Laws are laws. PDS is using the safe route by complying with the laws in Germany to the letter. I'm sure what they are doing is legal, because other games are also region locked in Germany. You can't expect them to throw away a huge market like Germany just for defiance, and it is also not their jobs to fight for a change in german laws.
If you are a German citizen it's YOUR job to change them. Write to your leadership, go on protests. You have every right to do those things.

There is no need for change them - cause they are not the problem here.