As a person living in Germany, I won't buy this.

[Zaku]

Just because you guys think it's illegal that doeasn't make it so.

"Steam also enforces a form of regional lockout in adherence to German law by offering special versions of some games with replaced banned content - most notably Swastikas - to German users"

This has been in steam for ages, and it wasn't an issue for the german law so far.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

There are no swastikas in HoI. Look at HoI II and III. Everything which was cut out in IV is in both predecessors and you can buy and activate the uncut versions in Germany. The geo lock is an overreaction. Nothing more. There was only 1 publisher before, who did such stuff fpr the same "reasons": Bethesda. And Bethesda was the first publisher, who wanted to charge for mods. So, Bethesda is insane in a certain way. Well done Paradox, you took the first step to the commercial hell like Bethesda a litte bit ago.

 

[Zaku]

The geo lock is an overreaction. Nothing more.

Maybe, but it's not illegal.

There are no swastikas in HoI.

The swastikas were just an example used in the quote.

 

[Hinforta]

There are no swastikas in HoI. Look at HoI II and III. Everything which was cut out in IV is in both predecessors and you can buy and activate the uncut versions in Germany. The geo lock is an overreaction. Nothing more. There was only 1 publisher before, who did such stuff fpr the same "reasons": Bethesda. And Bethesda was the first publisher, who wanted to charge for mods. So, Bethesda is insane in a certain way. Well done Paradox, you took the first step to hell like Bethesda a litte bit ago.

For my sanity and their profits' sake I hope they really know what they're doing, which I doubt.

 

[Midden]

I understand and feel these peoples pain with this situation, and respect their honorable protest not to compromise on principal, and respect their right to vent and rage against enforced anti-freedoms.

I like Paradox.
I like Steam.

The Geo-lock thing seems a heavy sledge hammer. My experience with the country thing on DVD'd / Blue Rays has infuriated me (as a person who has lived and moved around and worked in quite a few different regions.... I look at my DVD / Blue Ray shelf and see duplicates of some of my favorite movies from different regions). (The hardware manufacturers then responded with solutions on your DVD player / Blue Ray player remote control).

Just a ramble post but wanted to express solidarity for the people affected.

 

[Thaseus]

There are no swastikas in HoI. Look at HoI II and III. Everything which was cut out in IV is in both predecessors and you can buy and activate the uncut versions in Germany. The geo lock is an overreaction. Nothing more.

This is the part that suprises me about HoI4 and it's geo-lock it wasn't an issue with earlier titles so why now?

It's unfortunate that Germany has less than ideal laws but I don't think you should take it out on Paradox for having to abide by them or ensure that aren't going to get into any trouble because of them. Maybe you should elect someone other than Merkel next time.

Slightly Off-topic but the german people can't elect someone else because, technically speaking, they don't elect the Head of Government.
They also can't elect the Head of State which nominates the Head of Government, nor can they entirely, or at all, decide the people who will vote on these matters.

 

[maxk94]

Its possible to activate the game outside of germany? the border to france is 15minutes away....

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Maybe, but it's not illegal.

The swastikas were just an example used in the quote.

Illegal? Maybe not, but they're kicking the EU law.

And the swastikas were the only content, which must cut out everytime in videogames. The rest is a matter of interpretation. Uncut HoI IV would be rated with an +18 in Germany. With the cuts it is +12 (like HoI III). Panzer Corps is another good example (rated at 18 for us, 7 for the rest of the world). The reason for the cuts: Money. Bigger potential audience = more potential sales. Creative Assembly does the same stuff with the Total War franchise, but they allow us to get the full version through the Blood DLC to work around this "issue" in a legal way.

For my sanity and their profits' sake I hope they really know what they're doing, which I doubt.

If they know, what they would do, they hadn't made a own version for the German market. Less effort, we could import the game (completely legal) and we could buy the game through the plaza, so Paradox would have all the money without the cut for Valve. No one would be upset.

 

[Karimas]

The problem is that law.
And everyone who is protesting here: Would you please wait, so paradox can respond?

And in germany its even forbidden to have a clearly "anti" german reich flag is to much is shown.
Everything with a swastika goes instantly to "not allowed", totally unimportant what it was about.
So while i do not like how paradox planned it, i totally understand why they do it.
But lets just wait a little and see how they going to handle it from here. At least for an answer
with more details for us german customers.

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Yeah, but Paradox isn't "showing" it, if they would allow us to import the uncut version. Everything would be fine without this goddamn geo lock.

 

[Terh Rumnatarn]

they shouldnt. they should sell the censored game without geolock, so that i can compare prices. why is that so complicated to understand?

I read these forums and it is frightening how few of the germans know their law. Please read the link before you respond, but in the law it says: if you sell these type of games with certain symbols, quotes, songs etc (please read the law before you respond, it is very clearly what it says), you can make jail time. It is a criminal law.
So if Paradox sells you by mistake these kind of quotes, signs, uniforms etc, they can be sued.
Paradox has no fault, the fact that you whine on the forums without knowing how hard, chinese like (although China can buy the uncensored game, wow, less than China), german government censors is troubling.

Paradox is forced to geolock by the laws. Inform yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a : as introduction

 

[Rusiak]

i was annoyed when the austrian got blacked out.
i was disturbed when they said it would be only for germany.
i am outraged when i can't play it in english.

if all three points are correct and concerning the release of stellaris i wont buy, at least not until there is a workaround. that simple.

think of ALL the atrocities done by many the countries/leaders in that particular timeframe. except from the obvious carped bombing civillians comes to mind.
so many many more should be blacked out.
only sad thing is that you don't get taught all the stuff that happened back then because of winners' and losers' sides.

 

[Midden]

The problem is that law.
And everyone who is protesting here: Would you please wait, so paradox can respond?

And in germany its even forbidden to have a clearly "anti" german reich flag is to much is shown.
Everything with a swastika goes instantly to "not allowed", totally unimportant what it was about.
So while i do not like how paradox planned it, i totally understand why they do it.
But lets just wait a little and see how they going to handle it from here. At least for an answer
with more details for us german customers.

I sort of disagree, that the problem is only the law...

The problem here as I see it is the entertainment provider / game developers, have stepped into the realm of creating devices to "enforce laws". Whereas in my humble opinion they would be better off providing (in this complex world) a product that lets the end user choose / decide to apply and accept the responsibility for abiding by laws in their Jurisdiction.

 

[Nicolas I]

Really sad to see companies abiding the law. While you're at it, shouldn't they also support games piracy ?

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

Omg, no Paradox isn't forced to apply a geo lock.

HoI II: No geo lock.
HoI III: No geo lock.
Panzer Corps: No geo lock.
Medal of Honor/Call of Duty (WW2 games): No geo lock.
Wolfenstein (titles before TNO): No geo lock.
Sniper Elite: No geo lock.

Just a few examples.

And the import and ownership of the uncut versions is completely legal and allowed. The distribution within Germany is forbidden except a few things like model tanks for wargaming like warhammer 40k, where decal sheets have the swastika.

 

[frolix42]

There was only 1 publisher before, who did such stuff fpr the same "reasons": Bethesda. And Bethesda was the first publisher, who wanted to charge for mods. So, Bethesda is insane in a certain way. Well done Paradox, you took the first step to the commercial hell like Bethesda a litte bit ago.

What you call "reasons" are pretty easy to comprehend.

The international (non-German language) version of “Wolfenstein®: The New Order” (the “Game”) includes Nazi-related symbols and content – as a result, the sale, import, export, or distribution of this international version to and in Germany is strictly forbidden by German law, and would be, among other statutory violations, a criminal offence under §§ 86, 86a StGB (German Criminal Code). A violation may result in confiscation of the Game, a high financial penalty or up to three years in prison. Any person involved and/or responsible for such violation may be prosecuted and sentenced, including officers and employees of companies involved.

This prohibition applies to both physical and digital copies.

There are few exceptions in regard to the use of Nazi content in Germany, and although there are some cultural exemptions, which include films, under the current legislation these exceptions do not extend to cover videogames.

In order to prevent any digital copies of the international version from being sold, exported, imported or distributed into Germany, PC versions will be geo-locked so that they cannot be activated within Germany.

On the basis of legal advice and industry standard practice, we are also not making the international version available for sale in Austria.

http://www.bethblog.com/wolfenstein-the-new-order/

 

[Rider_of_Doom]

What you call "reasons" are pretty easy to comprehend.


http://www.bethblog.com/wolfenstein-the-new-order/

The distribution of the uncut version within Germany is forbidden, not the import. That's the reason, why the geo lock is deleted by Valve 90 days after the activation of the game.

 

[Daddl]

Common practice is more important than what the law says word by word. Non-lawyers usually interprete most laws they read completely wrong, as well as distinguishing wrong between import, sale, distribution and ownership. (My uncle is specialised in german criminal law, and I guess I can believe him when he told me how he sees this case). Geolock is unnecessary, everything except hiding swastikas is unnecessary (and they are in no version anyway). Paradox does shadow Hitler to be overly safe, and I won't criticize them for that. But Geolock is in no way required.

Maybe someone should finally collect some money and open a class-action lawsuit to enforce that computer games are finally considered art. Would be about time to end this stupid discussions all and for once.

 

[Tivish]

I read these forums and it is frightening how few of the germans know their law. Please read the link before you respond, but in the law it says: if you sell these type of games with certain symbols, quotes, songs etc (please read the law before you respond, it is very clearly what it says), you can make jail time. It is a criminal law.
So if Paradox sells you by mistake these kind of quotes, signs, uniforms etc, they can be sued.
Paradox has no fault, the fact that you whine on the forums without knowing how hard, chinese like (although China can buy the uncensored game, wow, less than China), german government censors is troubling.

Paradox is forced to geolock by the laws. Inform yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a : as introduction

So why then, there is no geolock for HoI3 ? They are not forced to geolock, thats bullshit.

 

[frolix42]

Omg, no Paradox isn't forced to apply a geo lock.

The reason why geo-locks weren't standard in the past is that digital distribution was a minority of sales. Now it's the vast majority and commercial lawyers are catching up. If game publishers don't apply a geo-lock, they risk being fined and forced to implement mandatory standards, which I guarantee will be a much worse alternative.

So why then, there is no geolock for HoI3 ? They are not forced to geolock, thats bullshit.

I trust the decision of someone at Paradox whose livelihood depends on getting the legal details correct over someone who is obsessed with being wrong.