Artillery discussion

[GAGA Extrem]

Some rules of thumb:
(1) The first time ART becomes really worthwhile in battle is around 1500 (to be exact: 1518 (land tech 17, fire modifier 0.5) or 1530 (land tech 18, fire modifier 1.0)).
(2) From this point on, ART will stay almost the same for a whole century. The next noteable increase of firepower is around 1644 (land tech 29, firepower 1.5). At the same time the shock modifier increases to 0.2, allowing ART to deal at least minimal shock damage in melee. Try CAV heavy armies supported by INF and ART during this timeframe.
(3) Around 1700, ART in your army is a must have: From LT 29 onwards, ART becomes stronger and stronger with each tech level. In 1690, it already has a 2.0 fire modifier, in 1700 it has 2.5, in 1709 it has 3.0.
(4) Your ideal combat-power-per-frontage army should consist of 50% frontline troops and 50% ART.

This is an interesting post.

Well, I bet it is!
*giggles*

This sounds like Victoria II, where the same stuff regarding artillery applies, but you are almost forced to use it, because combat width decreases. If your support limit is 50 regiments, but combat width is going to be 20, an army with lots of artillery sits there shooting the whole time, whereas an army with lots of infantry would consist of a bunch of guys behind the main line, smoking cigarettes.

Well, since both games use the same combat system - yes, it is very similiar. And you are right - since the front is larger in EU3, ART is not so terrible overpowered as in Vicky.

Artillery sound like a good deal in EU3 as well, but there are two problems that don't seem to be present in Victoria. The first is that if you go against someone with an army that is the same size, and one is (for example) 6 infantry and 2 cav, and the other is 4 infantry and 4 artillery, the artillery is going to have to be pretty potent to make up for having four extra flanking units.

(1) The larger stacks become, the less drastic is flanking:
When fighting 4 vs 8, half the combat power comes from flanking. When fighting 6 vs 10, only 40% does. Even during the early game, combat size will regulary go up to 20k per siode, and while fighting 16 vs 24, only 20% combat power comes from flanking. During the mid and late game, some battles will have a size of 50 to 80k - and around 1750, I have seen battles with more than 100k troops involved on both sides.
(2) In fact, this can even be turned around:
The smaller your frontage in comparison to your enemy, the less exposed your units are - and more enemy units will sit around doing nothing.
(3) ART is in fact a great protection from being overrun:
Since they start in the second row, they provide an additional morale buffer. If you retreat manually once your frontline collapses, your ART can still fight in the next battle and allow you to lose a 2nd battle. If you manage to retreat at the end of the month, an ART heavy army can even survive 3-4 battles while on retreat.
And I still remember that MP game where we played the seven years war: My prussian army utterly clobbered by two 0 vs 9 rolls in the deceisive battle, retreating towards Pommern - during the following battles, I had decent die rolls, weakening the chasing army - until in the 5th battle, I rolled an 8 vs 1 and a 9 vs 2, overrunning them. Gosh, that was so awesome.
(4) And we should not forget: Ever since fire is now (again) the first combat phase, a decent die roll during the first 5 rounds can become even more devestating with ART.

The other is that (at least in the early game, I haven't played in the later game yet) a primary way of killing an enemy stack is to force a retreat and then beat them to the retreat province. An attacker without artillery could out-race a beaten defender who is stuck dragging his artillery, and an attacker with artillery could reorganize his artillery out, and chase without them. It sounds like if you lose a battle when you have artillery in your stack, you would be dead meat.

I remember that I loved it in HTTT when the AI started using artillery, because pursuit was so much easier.

Well, ever since CAV received the same movespeed as INF, this has become much less of an issue. Outracing is only possible in large provinces or with a good leader (maneuver 3+). Although I agree, the reduced movement speed can be cumbersome.

When it comes to losses, late game battles usually are very bloody. I remember a fight in the same MP game mentioned above, 80k prussians vs. 110k austrians with losses of 6k vs. 11k per side per round. Sometimes you don't even overrun the retreating army in the following battle, you simple kill all their remaining men in combat.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

Yes, and unless changed in DW (I doubt so), this allows some nice extra exploitation (imo it is an exploit) with proper micromanagement:
If you send a small army ahead of your main stack (one or two days are enough) the enemy will place a lot of units in the 2nd line during the battle setup. Once your main army arrives, the units in the 2nd row will not join the fight until their comrades on the frontline are broken, allowing you to outnumber an enemy who has more men than you.

An example:
Austria has a 18 INF / 2 CAV stack. Hesse has an 6 INF stack and a 8 INF / 2 CAV stack. Hesse's 6 INF stack will arrive one day before the main army.

During the first round, the battle setup will look like this:
(x INF, + CAV, # empty)

AUS ##[COLOR="Red"]xxxxxxxxxx[/COLOR]##  or  ###[COLOR="Red"]xxxxxxxx[/COLOR]###
AUS ##[COLOR="Red"]+xxxxxxxx+[/COLOR]##      #[COLOR="Red"]+xxxxxxxxxx+[/COLOR]#
HES ####[COLOR="YellowGreen"]xxxxxx[/COLOR]####      ####[COLOR="YellowGreen"]xxxxxx[/COLOR]####
HES ##############      ##############

Once Hesse's main army arrives:

AUS ##[COLOR="Red"]xxxxxxxxxx[/COLOR]##  or  ####[COLOR="Red"]xxxxxxxx[/COLOR]####
AUS ##[COLOR="Red"]+xxxxxxxx+[/COLOR]##      ##[COLOR="Red"]+xxxxxxxxxx+[/COLOR]##
HES [COLOR="YellowGreen"]+xxxxxxxxxxxx+[/COLOR]      [COLOR="YellowGreen"]+xxxxxxxxxxxxxx+[/COLOR]
HES ######[COLOR="YellowGreen"]xx[/COLOR]######      ################

Now add some ART to these army setups and you will see how important ART is when it comes to unit placement and OOB:
ART will always take the second row, moving your excess melee units to the flanks, improving your OOB in case enemy reinforcements arrive.

 

[GAGA Extrem]

But doesn't the enemy unit placement change during the next days, adapting to the new situation? This exploit will give an advantage only during these few days, right?

No, it won't. That's why I call it exploitive. The setup above will only change once the first line collapses.
The engine does only re-arrange units that are outside the regular combat frontage, and even then, as you noted, you will have an advantage because it takes a few days to rearrange those.