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Yaromir

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In my current game the French AI destroyed all the forts on my (German) side across Maginot and started attacking :)

To be honest, I don't really like the feature, it adds unwelcome (IMHO) degree of additional micro-management.
 

Zhang

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In my current game the French AI destroyed all the forts on my (German) side across Maginot and started attacking :)

To be honest, I don't really like the feature, it adds unwelcome (IMHO) degree of additional micro-management.

+1

And I believe such mechanism actually make AI/Human more unbalanced and can be more gamy.
 

Rhedd

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I'm of two minds about this new feature. On one hand, it's nice to be able to bombard your enemies without actually engaging. On the other hand, however, it can be argued that with the scale of forces in AoD, and the size of the provinces, artillery exchanges are assumed to be part of any standard combat.

You already have to assume that forces are on the edge of the province when they bombard a neighboring province. Either that or they have artillery that routinely fires at targets one or two-hundred miles away! ^_^
 

deadmeat1471

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+1

And I believe such mechanism actually make AI/Human more unbalanced and can be more gamy.

A good feature would be, Artillery bombard, then a check box to attack once the 'supplys' (shells) are out, or maybe bombard for XXX hours then attack.
 

Khalep

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I'm of two minds about this new feature. On one hand, it's nice to be able to bombard your enemies without actually engaging. On the other hand, however, it can be argued that with the scale of forces in AoD, and the size of the provinces, artillery exchanges are assumed to be part of any standard combat.

You already have to assume that forces are on the edge of the province when they bombard a neighboring province. Either that or they have artillery that routinely fires at targets one or two-hundred miles away! ^_^

It did happen historically though. The Soviets bombarded the first of three (though they didn't know that) German lines before the assault on the Seelow Height, just before the battle of Berlin for.. I think it was quite a few hours. Blasted the heck out of that area without actually attacking. So it is of course different from what may or may not have already been simulated by the old engine.
 

General Guisan

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I'm of two minds about this new feature. On one hand, it's nice to be able to bombard your enemies without actually engaging. On the other hand, however, it can be argued that with the scale of forces in AoD, and the size of the provinces, artillery exchanges are assumed to be part of any standard combat.

You already have to assume that forces are on the edge of the province when they bombard a neighboring province. Either that or they have artillery that routinely fires at targets one or two-hundred miles away! ^_^

Actually, when you place troops at the frontline they'll have some smaller looses every day you need to replace. Is says something along this does represent smaller fights and occasional bombardment.

The artillery bombardement option will have your troops firing at the enemy just like crazy, WW1 style. Using tons of munition, for a relatively small gain, but if the enemy has a very strong position you otherwise can't breach... go for it!
 

deadmeat1471

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WW1 style. Using tons of munition, for a relatively small gain, but if the enemy has a very strong position you otherwise can't breach... go for it!

See the battle of Kursk, one of the largest artillery bombardments in history preluded that.
 

SwordOfJustice

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The least realistic feature of AoD in my opinion is artillery bombardment. Look at the scale of the game. And you want to have ranged attack in an operational corps level game with the scale of the provinces as they are? British 25 pounder artillery had a 12 km range from memory. Italian outdated pieces had around 8km from memory. Does it fit?

Sure, artillery was central to WW2. But it happened on the battlefield. And what do you think happened when one side would use artillery to soften up a position? The other side would respond with counter battery fire if available. There's no way it's a simple proposition. There is tactical detail to it.

All of which is perfectly handled by combat factors without a dedicated ranged feature.

I think the aim of having it AoD is to simulate the pre El Alamein style massive artillery barrage. However, the implementation is clumsy in my opinion. This could have been simulated in a different way with a higher attack rating at the start of a battle or use of a button like offensive supplies. In fact, what else is "offensive supplies" meant to be except massive expenditure of shells and ordnance in an offensive? So I would argue this a double handling of game mechanic.

No offence, AoD guys, you've delivered a wonderful game which is a brilliant achievement in anyone's book, including mine! Well done. I just don't like this one feature and for historical and game scale reasons. I still like AoD. I think you are all secretly in love with those MASSIVE railway artillery cannons... aren't you? Go on, you can admit it!! Come out of the closet and declare it to the world! :rofl:

If artillery brigades can make ranged attacks, why not battleships? Huh? Surely the ultimate artillery barrage is the Iowa's or Musashi's main guns? Yet in game it is a combat modifier. So this is inconsistent design.

But my oh my, those railway guns are so beautiful... :p

Artillery barrage is overrated anyway. It is deadly and has its effect, but for all the Allied sea bombardment prior to D-Day or some of the Pacific Island campaigns, it was not as effective as expected against heavily fortified bunker positions. Rommel was pummeled so badly yet the germans did put up quite a fight (esp. considering their appalling lack of supplies) despite that at El Alamein. Artillery of course helped counter the advantage they had of the incredibly deep minefields, etc.

I think this game feature has quite a negative effect on the combat mechanics which one would hope would try to represent WW2 combat if it's allowing someone to smash through fortification lines with ease. What happened to counter battery? It's all out of scale anyway. Sorry, just my opinion.


Actually... errr... I like railway guns too. And heavy subs... it's still a great game! I couldn't believe it when I first read of subs that had planes!!! :D


Cheers,
Sword
 

Yaromir

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Beautiful message SwordOfJustice, I sign under it, though I look at things from a different angle.

My primary concern is the effect it has on the game-play. This feature introduces the degree of additional micro-management which I find unwelcome.

The scale on which AoD is played, makes it more appropriate IMHO, to abstract it away.

I.e. as somebody suggested, have an artillery phase at the beginning of every attack.

Make forces facing each other outside of combat take casualties depending on relative artillery strengths

BTW, Sword, when is Fallout coming out for AoD :)
I am very much looking forward to playing it
 

Rhedd

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Make forces facing each other outside of combat take casualties depending on relative artillery strengths
Wow, I really like that idea!

I assume that if anyone really hates the bombardment thing enough to want it gone, it's as easy as removing the "artillery_bombardment = X" line for each unit entry in ...\db\units\divisions and ...\brigades.

Would that cause any problems with the AI?

You could even leave the ability for RAIL brigades, since they actually could fire from one province to another!
 
Last edited:

unmerged(41291)

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Wow, I really like that idea!

I assume that if anyone really hates the bombardment thing enough to want it gone, it's as easy as removing the "artillery_bombardment = X" line for each unit entry in ...\db\units\divisions and ...\brigades.

Would that cause any problems with the AI?

You could even leave the ability for RAIL brigades, since they actually could fire from one province to another!

I would love for the artillery bombardment option to be removed altogether.
If they really want to keep it to represent rail cannon/brigade that could fire from one province to another,well, ok; but they should cause something like 1% Infra damage and/or .1 fortress damage, can only fire once every 24 hours, consume twice the supplies of an entire infantry division, can only strat redeploy, and reduces the air defence of the division it's attached to to 0, or maybe 1, if you are being gentle.