Artillery barrage

[kalauer]

I bought Mandate of Heaven and Cradle of Civilization together, so I am unsure what the Status quo was, but here is my question:

Artillery Barrage is supposed to make 1 or 3 breaches in the fort wall?

The wiki says 1, I experience 3. Seems very strong to create 3 for 50 Military power, so I figured it is a bug?

Thanks for helpful replies.

 

[PhoenixG]

Artillery Barrage gives 3 in breaches in the walls.

Normal dice rolls gives 1.

 

[kalauer]

Okay, thanks. That is a very strong ability, isn't it? Kind of ends many sieges.

 

[PhoenixG]

It is, but still it does cost 50 mil. If have a ruler with decent mil it's a real problem. But if you have a crappy one, you'll run out quite fast.

 

[Sfan]

What do you mean it makes 3 breach? It makes one breach, which is 3 of siege status (21% chance added). A regular breach is the same, iirc.

 

[deathbypie]

What do you mean it makes 3 breach? It makes one breach, which is 3 of siege status (21% chance added). A regular breach is the same, iirc.

One breach is one siege status when they happen normally.

 

[PhoenixG]

barrage gives 3 siege status, while if you roll a breach it's only 1. So you need to roll 3 times to get one barrage.

 

[Sfan]

Oh well, I forgot how it is to make regular breaches.

 

[Sfan]

Well I just had a regular breach and it was clearly +21% chance.

 

[deathbypie]

Well I just had a regular breach and it was clearly +21% chance.

The tooltip is wrong. There is a 1 next to the breach icon.

 

[durbal]

Breaches give +3 to siege roll. Walls can be breached up to 3 times (so potentially +9 to siege roll). Artillery barrage adds 1 wall breach.

 

[Vulkandrache]

The roll outcome of breaching the wall gives +3 siege progress, the same as a water shortage.
But it also gives a permanent +1 to all future rolls stacking up to +3 after 3 times.
The barrage gives those permanent +3 instantly, nothing more nothing less.

 

[Badesumofu]

Breaches give +3 to siege roll. Walls can be breached up to 3 times (so potentially +9 to siege roll). Artillery barrage adds 1 wall breach.

If that were the case then hitting the button for a breach would instantly give 63% progress. There is a tooltip error, but natural breaches give 1 progress and stack up to 3 times. Barrage breaches give 3 stacks instantly.

Personally I love to hit the button. Saves attrition, shortens the time your army is exposed, speeds up wars. Plus when wars devolve into siege races it becomes a simple 'I win' button.

I'm interested to combine it with refill garrison for ultimate blitzing.

 

[Sfan]

No, I'm sorry, but they give 3 progress. I went from -21% to 0% with a regular breach. That's what I meant. Then it may add only +1 to other siege rolls, and a barrage might add +3 to other siege rolls, as Vulkandrache explained. But the progress is 21%, that's 3 siege status.

 

[rinehime]

I'm pretty sure the wiki is correct on this one:

If a breach occurs, ignore all results on the table below except for "Surrender". If the fort does not surrender, add 1 to the breach status and 2 to the siege status. [3 max for +9 total from rolled breaches]

[A]n artillery barrage ... creates 3 breaches [+3 to breach status] in the walls.

3 "rolled breaches" = +9 total
Barrage (once only) = +3 total.
My question is: Can you still roll a "breach" to get the +2 to siege status after the breach status is already +3?

Breaches give +3 to siege roll. Walls can be breached up to 3 times (so potentially +9 to siege roll).

Correct for rolled breaches.

Artillery barrage adds 1 wall breach.

Incorrect. Barrage sets breach status to +3.

The roll outcome of breaching the wall gives +3 siege progress, the same as a water shortage.
But it also gives a permanent +1 to all future rolls stacking up to +3 after 3 times.
The barrage gives those permanent +3 instantly, nothing more nothing less.

The +2 to siege status is permanent as well, so a single "rolled breach" is a total permanent +3 modifier. As far as siege rolls are concerned, I don't think there's any difference between siege status and the breach level, i.e. they're both included in the modified die roll.

barrage gives 3 siege status, while if you roll a breach it's only 1. So you need to roll 3 times to get one barrage.

See above - rolling one breach = 1 barrage. So a rolled breach is just as good as a barrage (and can happen 2 more times).

No, I'm sorry, but they give 3 progress. I went from -21% to 0% with a regular breach. That's what I meant. Then it may add only +1 to other siege rolls, and a barrage might add +3 to other siege rolls, as Vulkandrache explained. But the progress is 21%, that's 3 siege status.

You're right, but I'm pretty sure it adds +3 to all future rolls (not just +1). It's just that +2 goes to siege status and +1 to breach status. Odd to split it between two modifiers, but presumably it's to (1) track if a breach has occurred for an assault, (2) track maximum number of breaches (can a "breach" change the siege status by +2 after the max breach is reached?) and (3) differentiate barrages from rolled breaches.

 

[kalauer]

I'm pretty sure the wiki is correct on this one:

.

I agree on the latest Status of the discussion. Certainly, if you would roll three breaches, you'd have a higher score, but what are the Odds (1:12^3 I guess). But my Point, and the cause for my assessment that it is a very (possibly too) strong ability was that you can instantly get These +3. Combined with the other boni, there is at least a period in time where forts are Close to useless.

On aside note, this is increased by the "strengthen government" which imo really buffs republics (not saying they didn't Need it after monarchies have more influence on their ruler) a lot. In my recent playthrough with Milan to Roman, I never ran out of Monarch Points.

Later on, against lvl8, it loses effect and there can be longer sieges again. So I think it would be possible to think about unlocking the ability later. It is certainly not an immediate or gamebreaking issue though.