Arn't debris too op?

[Archael90]

researching debris may grant you extreme echnological boost, isn't it op?
My suggestion is to block ability to use higher tier techs (components) before researching lower tiers
eg. you got armour tier 4 from debries, and using just tier 2. So you now have higher grade tech, but you cant use tier 4 component untill researched tier 3.

 

[Lumpy]

Yeah, the ability to skip tiers due to reverse engineering seems to be a tad bit OP indeed. I like your idea of debris just boosting research for your respective next tier of a given technology!

 

[Longprao]

If so they would have to block psionic tech too.

Because I usually rush psionic and have psi jump drive when being at just hyper drive 2.

And precognitive interface when having basic computer combat.

And psi shield when having shield 3.

When that happens, it is so ridiculous that the inferior techs still show up for research.

 

[Spaceception]

Isn't that already the case? I remember getting into a war where the enemy had a couple tiers on me, and when I researched the debris, it was all just the next tier when it came up on the research options. And the superior tech didn't automatically come up in the pool once I researched the lower tier.
Maybe it's a bug?

 

[permeakra]

researching debris may grant you extreme echnological boost, isn't it op?

No, it isn't, because no, it cannot. To reliably get this boost you need to beat a threat vastly beyond your tech level and it is worth a reward. Otherwise you get better, but comparable tech.
Now, the idiocy of not getting tech of previous level automatically is another matter...

 

[TehJumpingJawa]

No, it isn't, because no, it cannot. To reliably get this boost you need to beat a threat vastly beyond your tech level and it is worth a reward. Otherwise you get better, but comparable tech.
Now, the idiocy of not getting tech of previous level automatically is another matter...

You don't need to beat a threat vastly beyond your tech level, just destroy a ship that drops the tech, then lose the war.

 

[Jmes Snowscoran]

Isn't that already the case? I remember getting into a war where the enemy had a couple tiers on me, and when I researched the debris, it was all just the next tier when it came up on the research options. And the superior tech didn't automatically come up in the pool once I researched the lower tier.
Maybe it's a bug?

This is correct. For example, if you don't already have tier 5 shields researched, you won't be getting dark matter deflectors tech from FE debris- it'll just grant you points in your highest available shield type. Another example: If you haven't progressed very far into your railgun tech line, giga cannon debris will first give you points in railgun techs until you get the prerequisite for mega cannon, then points in mega cannon, and finally points in giga cannon if you're still doing debris after finishing the aforementioned techs.

There are some techs without strict prereqs that can bypass this requirement (jump drives come to mind) but there aren't that many of them.

 

[Flame13223]

No there's a cost to it and a risk to it. If you attack a faction with better gear than yours and win then you SHOULD be rewarded.
I mean war is bad for your economy as is, how else are you supposed to catch up with someone who is at peace non-stop as someone who does go to war? Wars cost resources and going wide hampers your ability to research tech so the only real way for you to catch up is with debris. If killing a faction would grant you all the tech they had then we wouldn't need debris but that is not how it works atm.

 

[permeakra]

You don't need to beat a threat vastly beyond your tech level, just destroy a ship that drops the tech, then lose the war.

... And survive that war without too much damage to set you back.
Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[Archael90]

1. You making FE upset.
2. FE starts a war against you.
3. you destroy one FE ship
4. you surrender and loose the war being humiliated.
5. Research debris.
6. Profit

 

[permeakra]

you destroy one FE ship

losing most of your fleet in the process.
You get conquered by your neighbors.

Yeah, good luck.

 

[KingAlamar]

Other than a potential issue with FE exploits is this really a problem?? Going to war against another player and/or Empire is risky business. If you happen to be at a significant tech disadvantage you must be very careful not to get completely steamrolled.

In my current game I was a defender having to beat back a pair of superior empires. It pretty much pushed my alloy generation capacity to the breaking point and for what ... 1 level in shields and 1 level in lasers between two different wars??

As a mega-corp I'd have been MUCH happier role playing and making friends [which I certainly tried] rather than just having an empire decide one day ... hey I don't like you. Because "reasons"?

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For the FE issue just give them Enigmatic Engineering OR have their tech cost a lot of rare strategics and make sure that there aren't many [any?] ways to generate those strategics without actually taking away pieces of their empire --- I.E. winning a war.

 

[Flame13223]

1. You making FE upset.
2. FE starts a war against you.
3. you destroy one FE ship
4. you surrender and loose the war being humiliated.
5. Research debris.
6. Profit

1 - Not the easiest and safest thing to provoke an FE
2 - Killing a ship is easier said than done
3 - Losing your entire fleet and getting a humiliation penalty is pretty bad
4 - You still need to research the tech which would take months and months and you need special resources such as dark matter to even make such components which requires a tech in turn to harvest and usually doesnt even appear as buyable in the market until someone already has the harvest tech researched.

 

[Rios_]

I know what OP said used to be true, but didn't PDX implement a change to debris where it didn't give you the tech of the ship that dropped it, but the next one in the chain that you hadn't researched, to avoid the problem of skipping over important techs like blue lasers and being locked out of repeatables? Back in patch 2.1 .

In any case, the balance between tech based military power and economy/alloy based military power does still heavily lean towards alloy output with a couple of notable exceptions, but you can't really fix that by messing around with debris, you would need to adjust the power of higher tier ship components or totally eliminate the alloy cost difference.

 

[bobucles]

I tried this with shields, but it just walked me through the tiers of shields like normal.

 

[happyscrub]

Debris is another reason why society has always been the best research path.

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Should be restricted to combat vessels only. I've snatched myself Fallen Empire-tier engines and armor just by downing unarmed transports more times than I can count.

 

[Flame13223]

Debris is another reason why society has always been the best research path.

I found engineering to be the best since society you always get whether you want it or not as there's several more ways to obtain it than any other research path (primitives, monuments, etc...)