Armored Fast Extraction 'Mech Options

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HonorKnight

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Jordan's extraction spider got a bit of attention on the old forum, but I didn't hear as much about the alternative fast-moving options. Certainly locusts don't make the list, with the tissue paper they call armor, but there are still a few options to consider.

First let's look at the 7 speed (8 in tabletop) Spider. The light Spider can hold a smidgen over 6.5 tons of armor, so that leaves 3 tons to spare (or 2.5 tons if you go for 7 tons of armor, but the last half ton barely gives any armor at all). With your remaining tonnage you could fit 6 jump jets in there (or 5 with truly maxed-out armor) for maneuverability.

A respectable alternative is the 6.5 speed (7 in tabletop) Jenner. The light Jenner runs only slightly slower than the spider. In tabletop it's 12.5% slower, but due to HBS bell-curving of speeds, it's closer to 7.5% slower - not bad! The Jenner comes better protected at 7.5 tons of armor, and that leaves plenty of room for a full suite of 7 jump jets, while still having an extra 2.5 tons to invest in a couple heat sinks or medium lasers. A max-distance jump with 7 jump jets generates a whopping 60 heat, so jumping will have to be done in moderation unless you jump shorter distances.

Next is the Cicada CDA-2A. The medium CDA-2A can hold 6.5 tons of armor, and that's literally all it can hold. The 7 speed (8 in tabletop) CDA-2A can sprint exactly as fast as a spider, with the same armor. The two main upshots are more flexibility in where you put the armor since it isn't actually maxed out (so you could strip down the arms to buff up the CT or legs), along with more points of structure behind the armor, while the two main downsides are a lack of jump jets and a later initiative.

And another Cicada variant CDA-3C. The medium CDA-3C can hold 8.5 tons of armor, and 7 jump jets, leaving 2 spare tons for heat sinks or weapons. The 6.5 speed (7 in tabletop) CDA-3C matches the Jenner in speed, so roughly 7.5% slower than the spider or the CDA-2A. The upshot compared to the Jenner is more armor, while the downside again is a later initiative.

While you're trying to salvage up one of these top four options, it looks like you'll get a commando in your starting lance, which is not a serious competitor for this role, but you can make it work. The Commando's 5.5 speed (6 in tabletop) is tied with Firestarter and is the next best thing to a Jenner. At 5.5 tons of armor (I guess you may as well get the tiny bit of extra armor pushing you over to 6 tons) and 6 jump jets, that leaves 3 tons for heat sinks or a bit of weaponry. Obviously you could drop some or all jump jets and add more weaponry (on this or any other chassis) if you want to be more balanced for other mission types.
 
Last edited:

HonorKnight

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_Firefly

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The JR7-F could be an excellent 'mech for extraction mission - 7 tonnes of armour, 4 MLs (I'd rather have those when things get hairy), reasonable heat efficiency, good jump distance and high speed. My only concern would be really long jumps and heat, but with moderation I'm sure it could be made to work.
 

Agent.0.Fortune

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Amechwarrior

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While I doubt this is in the game, the Spider is the only one here with hands to actually carry the target or lift them up to the cockpit, however small the Spider's may be. This would certainly be a concern in the TT, but I doubt HBS will go to that level of detail. It would be nice if they did, or made the VIP loading process a turn faster for 'Mechs with a hand.
 

Prince of Scars

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Depending upon how exactly “extraction” is abstracted and defined, I would think the Spider and Commando would be the only real options. With their complete lack of not only hands, but arms too, the Locust/Cicada/Jenner make me wonder what exactly they are supposed to be extracting. While it at least has arms, the Firestarter and it’s lack of hands would make me shy away from it as a choice too.

Edit: Amechwarrior beat me to it.
 

HonorKnight

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I mentioned stock to demonstrate how little tonnage is available to allocate. You cannot carry 8 tons of armor, if you elect to load 8 jump jets you have to drop all armor.
Does this help clarify things for you?
hPPxzEA.png

EDIT: I was showing the engine for a different Cicada variant, corrected the original post
 
Last edited:

Packrat

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With their complete lack of not only hands, but arms too, the Locust/Cicada/Jenner make me wonder what exactly they are supposed to be extracting.
Just open the cockpit, and let the escortee climb in. I'm fairly certain mechs would have ladders and steps on it so pilots can get in and out without needing special equipment, so it would be viable, if slow.
 

Prince of Scars

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Just open the cockpit, and let the escortee climb in. I'm fairly certain mechs would have ladders and steps on it so pilots can get in and out without needing special equipment, so it would be viable, if slow.

You are not incorrect, but i have two issues with that.
1) You are at a dead stop in a Light ‘Mech while your escortee climbs in. Stopping for any amount of time while on a live battlefield is a huge no-no.
2) While it not be much weight, the Spider and Commando are not limited to being able to extract personnel only.
 

Packrat

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You are not incorrect, but i have two issues with that.
1) You are at a dead stop in a Light ‘Mech while your escortee climbs in. Stopping for any amount of time while on a live battlefield is a huge no-no.
2) While it not be much weight, the Spider and Commando are not limited to being able to extract personnel only.
Yeah, agreed on that. I was just giving what I think would be the justification for letting any mech perform the extraction so they can leave that kind of mission open for inclusion as story missions without running into the potential problem of the player just not having any mechs with hands at the time and therefore needing to restart the entire campaign to get another shot at completing the story.
 

Prince of Scars

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Yeah, agreed on that. I was just giving what I think would be the justification for letting any mech perform the extraction so they can leave that kind of mission open for inclusion as story missions without running into the potential problem of the player just not having any mechs with hands at the time and therefore needing to restart the entire campaign to get another shot at completing the story.

Fair point, I did not think of it like that.

Although, it may not be that big of a deal. The mission selection screen looked pretty comprehensive, and hopefully there will be a broad enough selection of missions available to suit your current compliment of ‘Mechs.
 
Last edited:

Prince of Scars

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Except the Cicada (320) engine weighs 22.5. A 280 engine weighs 16, but that would be a 7 TT walk not the 8 the Cicada actually has.

Which would mean that an additional ton of weigh would be freed up, because a 280 engine would only require a three to gyro.
 

Fairborne

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Which would mean that an additional ton of weigh would be freed up, because a 280 engine would only require a three to gyro.

No. HonorKnight has the wrong weight and we cannot change engines. The Cicadas engine weighs 6.5 tons more than his table shows. Therefore to give it 8 jumpjets, you would have to drop that small laser and only have 2.5 tons of armor or drop the laser & jumpjets and have 6.5 tons of armor.
 

HonorKnight

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Except the Cicada (320) engine weighs 22.5. A 280 engine weighs 16, but that would be a 7 TT walk not the 8 the Cicada actually has.
Yup, I had the weight of the wrong engine on there. Correcting my post now, thanks for the heads up!
 

Dexion

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Am I the only one who thinks the 3C Cicada is simply superior too the 2A? The tiny amount of extra movement just isn't worth the 7 tons of payload you give up.
 

ronhatch

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Am I the only one who thinks the 3C Cicada is simply superior too the 2A? The tiny amount of extra movement just isn't worth the 7 tons of payload you give up.
Just about anything is superior to the 2A... the way I usually say it is that it's on the wrong side of the engine power curve.

In other words... for an 8 move, the ideal mech tonnage is 30 or 35. For the 8 move, a 30-ton mech needs a 240 engine which weighs 11.5 tons, a gyro at 3 tons, and structure weighs 3 tons. A 35-ton mech with the same move needs a 255 engine which weighs 16 tons, the same gyro, and structure weighing 3.5 tons... note that the added weight exactly matches the 5 ton increase of the mech, resulting in no additional tonnage available for weapons and other goodies. Now for the 40-ton mech at that move... well, you need a 320 engine weighing 22.5 tons, a 4 ton gyro, and structure weighing 4 tons... you just added 8 tons of equipment to a chassis that only has 5 more available, so you actually end up needing to drop weapons and/or other equipment to make it work. The only possible benefit is having more max armor, but in the case of the Cicada it doesn't even have enough tonnage to get to the max.

The Banshee is also on the wrong side of the engine power curve, and the Quickdraw gets honorable mention for wasting tonnage by using inefficient jump jets.
 

Prussian Havoc

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Why would Jordan come out so strongly in favor of a dedicated Extraction Mech?

An unarmed, max-armored, max-Jump Light Mech Extraction Mech at that...

Is there a benefit to getting the VIP or Item, once secured, to an extraction point as soon as possible?

Evading combat and going for max-Evasion?

While the remaining 3-Mechs of the Lance fade back?

Regardless of other battlefield situations (on-going fighting from a pesky pursuing AI) does the Mission automatically end once the VIP/Item being extracted reach the Extraction Area?



Lots of good questions, worthy of theorycrafting and our best estimations. Just one or two such Missions into the Solo-Campaign should provide template and rationale enough to confirm/deny much of this.

It just goes against my nature to render one of my four BattleMechs into what amounts to a purposeful non-combatant. Oh sure it can Melee on the Front End of the Mission but once the "package" is secured... ???

But then I remind myself that it was Jordan himself who shared the idea of an Extraction Mech to us... and I wonder if I can do it better, through the use of Tactics, Maneuver and 4-Armed Mechs, rather than a Material Solution (Extraction Mech.)

Is that Prideful?

Is that a Conceit?

Damn skippy that is a prideful conceit... but that is also BATTLETECH!

: )