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EntropyAvatar

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I was thinking about how I would design mobile forces in HoI4, and I keep coming back to some unknowns in the game mechanics. Perhaps it's been stated already, but I am still not clear on:

1. How division-level armor and piercing are determined
2. Whether or not there is any sort of combined arms mechanism
3. If there is still a distinction in combat resolution between armored and non-armored divisions
 
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bkuepers

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I'm curious of the same things. It did appear piecing wasn't the highest value of one unit in your division, but rather possibly an average now? I thought I saw during a video piercing going down when adding a battalion.

I've seen nothing at all on any of the combat bonuses during a land battle in any of the videos referring to a "combined arms" bonus. Didn't see it on the army planner screen either so it appears that is a thing of the past.
 

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I'm curious of the same things. It did appear piecing wasn't the highest value of one unit in your division, but rather possibly an average now? I thought I saw during a video piercing going down when adding a battalion

Probably done for balance reasons. If that was not the case there might not be enough incentive to put more than one antitank battalion or antitank support in a division template. The same with armor, if it's averaged you will not get the full bonus with just one tank battalion in a large division.
 
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Probably done for balance reasons. If that was not the case there might not be enough incentive to put more than one antitank battalion or antitank support in a division template. The same with armor, if it's averaged you will not get the full bonus with just one tank battalion in a large division.

Yeah, one battalion giving the bonus to the whole division might be a bit much (especially if the battalion was at half or a quarter strength). At the same time, I don't think it is a straight average either. Looking at tooltips in another thread, adding a support artillery lowered piercing by 0.1, while adding a cavalry had no effect on piercing. I don't think an average would make sense anyway, as you don't need every gun in the division to be able to stop the heaviest tanks.

Let's assume they've dropped the combined arms concept from HoI3 but kept the hidden bonus for armor attacking non-armor. Then you add tank destroyers or the like to motorized divisions in order to give them some armor and piercing, and build armor divisions to get the bonus. Artillery would just be along to give more firepower?
 
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The combined arms mechanic -- as introduced in TFH -- was such an important feature. It encouraged the player to build diverse historically accurate divisions. I cannot imagine they would not carry that feature forward to HoiIV, especially with the more detailed division builder. Then again I would never imagine they would strip fuel from the game either. The fact that you can defeat the Soviets with all infantry no artillery divisions "because they have more org" is not particularly encouraging.
 
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The combined arms mechanic -- as introduced in TFH -- was such an important feature. It encouraged the player to build diverse historically accurate divisions. I cannot imagine they would not carry that feature forward to HoiIV, especially with the more detailed division builder. Then again I would never imagine they would strip fuel from the game either. The fact that you can defeat the Soviets with all infantry no artillery divisions "because they have more org" is not particularly encouraging.

The piercing mechanism was good, though there wasn't really enough feedback to the player to let them know how important this was - unless you read the forums you probably wouldn't have realised it.

There are other, more intuitive ways of implementing this though. One is simply to designate some terrain-types as "close" and use a separate close-in attack/defend stat for combat in those terrain tpes (this is the solution used in Panzer Corps). Since the infantry excel at close-in fighting and have low stats otherwise, you are encouraged to use infantry to defend in the "close" terrain and to avoid using tanks to attack infantry in close terrain but instead attempt to out-flank dug-in infantry.

For example, using tanks to defend a stretch of desert is OK, but defending a city should instead be trusted to an infantry division because a city is close-in terrain. Attacking infantry in the desert is a task best given to a tank division, but assaulting a city instead favours infantry, with tanks employed to out-flank through open terrain.

In HOI3 it was possible to simply blitz the world with pure leg-infantry and not even build tanks. Or aircraft for that matter. You weren't punished for not even employing armour.
 
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In HOI3 it was possible to simply blitz the world with pure leg-infantry and not even build tanks. Or aircraft for that matter. You weren't punished for not even employing armour.

Yeah I definitely like to see mechanics that ensure that if you lack one of the primary tools, you get yourself into a sticky situation. Right now it seems like artillery is just extra firepower where I think it made a qualitative difference. Abstracting so much artillery into the infantry equipment seems odd in a game that counts every tank.
 
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In HOI3 it was possible to simply blitz the world with pure leg-infantry and not even build tanks. Or aircraft for that matter. You weren't punished for not even employing armour.

Let's not over sell this point, though.

If you had no infantry AND no tanks, you could hypothetically win, but you aren't going to get the kind of clean win you might get by using tanks and aircraft. The whole world just ends up looking a nail to your hammer.

I also think going without air power was generally a bad idea for majors. The firepower/manpower ratio in air wings made them hyper efficient in certain very important situations. The force multiplier effect from air power could be felt even when pushing MIL divisions around. (In fact, I think getting air power right is more important in HOI3 in many cases than getting tanks right.)
 
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In that WWW game, Barbarossa started in Winter, on foot, with no artillery, and the Soviet Union got steam rolled. What happened to winter penalties? Logisitics problems from different rail guages? Why did the Soviet Union not raise the additional armies it did in real life? Where are the T34s which shocked the Germans causing a desperate race to find a German tank design to defeat them?

The mountain fortress that is Switzerland got swamped and crushed effortlessly in that game. There are serious balance issues that still need to be addressed.
 
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Those issues have been addressed ad nauseam in the multiple other threads on the russian invasion. I get that you don't like the answer, but that doesn't change the answer's validity.

All-vanilla-infantry strategies have been executed and discussed on this board since HoI2. The mod Blue Emu made the first threads on the subject.. it's not a balance issue, it's a player preference issue.
 
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All-vanilla-infantry strategies have been executed and discussed on this board since HoI2. The mod Blue Emu made the first threads on the subject.. it's not a balance issue, it's a player preference issue.

No, it isn't. It's a historical accuracy issue. Pure-leg infantry strategies should land you with WW1-style outcomes. The entire reason WW2 happened the way it did is because of the development of, and use of, new weapons and tactics. The game should punish you hard for ignoring this, and HOI3 didn't sufficiently.
 
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The combined arms mechanic -- as introduced in TFH -- was such an important feature. It encouraged the player to build diverse historically accurate divisions. I cannot imagine they would not carry that feature forward to HoiIV, especially with the more detailed division builder. Then again I would never imagine they would strip fuel from the game either. The fact that you can defeat the Soviets with all infantry no artillery divisions "because they have more org" is not particularly encouraging.

In that WWW game, Barbarossa started in Winter, on foot, with no artillery, and the Soviet Union got steam rolled. What happened to winter penalties? Logisitics problems from different rail guages? Why did the Soviet Union not raise the additional armies it did in real life? Where are the T34s which shocked the Germans causing a desperate race to find a German tank design to defeat them?

The mountain fortress that is Switzerland got swamped and crushed effortlessly in that game. There are serious balance issues that still need to be addressed.

In WWW the Invasion startend 1940. Befor any t34 Produktion could have started. The industry was not.mived to siberia. And SU was in the middle of a purge and just had an intern Revolte where trotski couped Stalin. The artillery was removed so the infantry need less supply. This way he was able to attack in the Winter. The russians were overrun unprepared and lost most of their factories quickly. Combined with the increased supply need the Winter caused, the SU run out of equipment quickly. If switzerland is really a tough fortress is relative. You can easily reach the big cities and thats enough for surrender.
 
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TheOrangeGuy

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Regarding the combined arms, I'm not 100% sure it's in, in the www we can see Daniel using divisions with only tanks, I understand that he has more tanks then trucks, but a good player like Daniel would disband the motorised SS to place those trucks in the armoured divisions if it was a big deal, right?