Maybe the game can start of with regiments, but then in the second half of the 19th century you can research a doctrine that allows you to orginaze your armies in divisions.
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
I don't see why it would be impossible to just place your regiments into brigades,divisions and corps when their numbers become unmanagable.
Its not like you have to move every individual regiment by itself is it?
Its not like you have to move every individual regiment by itself is it?
Yes, but that's less horrific once you've organised them into divisions and corps and move your armies around.
Colonial warfare saw small forces engaged all around the globe.
On the other hands for conflicts like WWI or the the American civil war You'll handle whole armies.
The advantage of the regiments is that you can have units as small or as big as you want and keep some historical flavour.
The disadvantage is that once the armies strart growing From 1880 on you have a lot of management to organize them into larger units, and you'll need to handle many troop types in the later years. And a WWI scenario at regimental level woul not be very manageable
Divisions or corps would be much simpler to handle but you lose historicity, and it's hard to simulate the many small colonial conflicts which involved units much smaller than a division.
Moreover the evolution of the armies with the gradual development of the larger units like divisions corps and armies was a major evolution of the military in that periode. Those had existed only on temporary basis during the Napoleonic years and they became permanent organisations.
Anyway, is that really worth the trouble?
Like I said, when the American Civil War comes around you should be able to research a divisional organiztional doctrine, and from then on produce divisions rather than regiments.
As long as those regiments can be merged to larger units it really doesnt matter. And regiments will probably be needed for several things in Victoria, mainly colonialization.
I think that it might be cool to have some option buttons on the military unit creation screen that let's you choose to create a military unit on the regiment, brigade, or divisional level. Small units should be fairly quick to make.
You would also have to have the option to merge existing regiments into brigades or divisions. Conversely, the option would also exist to break apart larger troop formations into smaller ones.
Divisional organization might be tech related and not available early in the game.
This could also add some strategic depth to the game. Let's say that your nation is in a tough war and you can only spare a single division to protect a strech of coastline. However, the territory has two beachfront provinces. If you were able to break that division into brigades or regiments, you could cover both entry points with a smaller force.
EnPeaSea
You would also have to have the option to merge existing regiments into brigades or divisions. Conversely, the option would also exist to break apart larger troop formations into smaller ones.
Divisional organization might be tech related and not available early in the game.
This could also add some strategic depth to the game. Let's say that your nation is in a tough war and you can only spare a single division to protect a strech of coastline. However, the territory has two beachfront provinces. If you were able to break that division into brigades or regiments, you could cover both entry points with a smaller force.
EnPeaSea
When I think about my example, the game would really be using regiments as the baseline units. The larger formations could simply be groups of regiments that are created already "merged". This would cut done on unit management.
EnPeaSea
EnPeaSea
Well the FAQ answers it. It will be divisions like HOI.
Anyway my point was not to have fun moving all your regiments individually wich would be stupid and pointless, but to raise regiments rather than divisions, that you could later organize into divisions corps and armies and move around like armies corps or divisions. Like you already do in HOI, and you will do in this game with your divisions.
The point is or rather was that divisions are BIG for much of the warfare of that periode while for the larger conflicts you'll use Army size units anyway.
This may result in a rather big British Army if the basic unit is the division, as you'll probably need more than 8 or 10 units to manage things in your Empire. And overall in much bigger armies than historical.
Anyway my point was not to have fun moving all your regiments individually wich would be stupid and pointless, but to raise regiments rather than divisions, that you could later organize into divisions corps and armies and move around like armies corps or divisions. Like you already do in HOI, and you will do in this game with your divisions.
The point is or rather was that divisions are BIG for much of the warfare of that periode while for the larger conflicts you'll use Army size units anyway.
This may result in a rather big British Army if the basic unit is the division, as you'll probably need more than 8 or 10 units to manage things in your Empire. And overall in much bigger armies than historical.
Well, it will be even worse for the US, who historically only would have a division or two worth of manpower in their entire army. It just doesn't make sense to send an entire division to the Dakotas to put down a outbreak of indian unrest...
I think most American players will have a rather ahistoricaly large army even if they don't plan to use it ahistoricaly just in case something unexpected happens.
I understand now! This has too be done otherwise its all gonna be pretty stupid eh? or they do it the EU way but thats no fun.
The problem is the wide range of conflicts to be covered. For WWI you'll move millions of men around. While in an expedition in Sudan you may have a 5000 or 6000 men army. Finding the right scale between that is not easy.
If you take divisions you would have armies only a few division strong to cover world Empires while at regiment level it would result in a German army with around 2000 regiments of all kinds to organise for WWI.
It's a matter of finding the right balance. Regiments and brigades are the right scale for colonial warfare and give more historical flavour than divisions. However for WWI and other large conflicts we handle corps or armies.
Divisions and corps existed throughout the XIXth century and were standard organisations for all nations. However for many countries these were only war time units.
The US only had a few regular Regiments. Until 1870 the French had no defined organisation for divions or corps that were improvised when war broke. The British army was small and did not deploy anything larger than divisions until WWI where the BEF was organised in two corps.
The Germans however had a well defined organisation, with each army corps having a specific recruitment district defined and everything prepared and ready for mobilisation, a concept they had just invented.....
If you take divisions you would have armies only a few division strong to cover world Empires while at regiment level it would result in a German army with around 2000 regiments of all kinds to organise for WWI.
It's a matter of finding the right balance. Regiments and brigades are the right scale for colonial warfare and give more historical flavour than divisions. However for WWI and other large conflicts we handle corps or armies.
Divisions and corps existed throughout the XIXth century and were standard organisations for all nations. However for many countries these were only war time units.
The US only had a few regular Regiments. Until 1870 the French had no defined organisation for divions or corps that were improvised when war broke. The British army was small and did not deploy anything larger than divisions until WWI where the BEF was organised in two corps.
The Germans however had a well defined organisation, with each army corps having a specific recruitment district defined and everything prepared and ready for mobilisation, a concept they had just invented.....
Good point, but perhaps American units should be extremely expensive to raise and maintain in order to prevent this?
Maybe 2 sizes of units.
One for colonial warfare and one for European ww1.
Where the larger only gets availabel at later techlevels and includes more supportingelements.
It should have better moral and efficency and so on.
Would in effect be similar to the militia/infantry in HoI.
Just let the smaller one be less capable.
One for colonial warfare and one for European ww1.
Where the larger only gets availabel at later techlevels and includes more supportingelements.
It should have better moral and efficency and so on.
Would in effect be similar to the militia/infantry in HoI.
Just let the smaller one be less capable.
Well, I hope Paradox will find a solution. One of the biggest problems with EU was the unhistorical large armies that most countries had.
Perhaps the only solution would be to make it extremely expensive (for most countries) to maintan large standing armies in peacetime, and make sure that it is impossible to supply large armies in areas like Africa, the American West etc...
Perhaps the only solution would be to make it extremely expensive (for most countries) to maintan large standing armies in peacetime, and make sure that it is impossible to supply large armies in areas like Africa, the American West etc...
Does anyone have an opinion on my idea for starting out the game with regiments and then when 1860 rolls around one can then research a divisional orginization doctrine. After this is researched one can chose to build regiments or divisions.
Well, the division did exist before 1860 (it was only the US of A who didn't feel the need for a divisional organization at wartime). But there should be an option to build smaller units. Most colonial wars were fought on a regimental and not divisional scale. The best way to implement it is to make it extremely difficult to supply divisions and larger units outside Europe before 1860. Or perhaps in provinces without a railroad network of a certain scale...
I would prefer an option where you could choose to build understrenght divisions (perhaps a minimum strenght of 10% = 1000 men). Obviously for the option to work, division strenght should be a critical factor in battle - something it was not in HoI (it didn't have any effect). You should be able to reinforce the division to have more men later (up to 100% )
It would be a simple solution.
) It would be a simple solution.