Armies instantly destroyed

[Acheron]

I was France then became HRE. Rebellions are springing up almost everywhere (inherited a HUGE colonial empire) and I have a war with Burgundy (now existing only in South America). Well, I was on top of things, rebellions got squashed and Burgundy was defeated, too. However, something happens in the middle of the year. I sent my armies to crush some rebels, 32.000 men in all (half infantry, rest cavalry and artillery) on my side, 4.000 men on the rebel side. The second my army enters the province, it gets immediately and completely destroyed. Morale was only half full from what I saw, but still, an army INSTANTLY ANNIHILATED despite having an eight-to-one numerical advantage? Doesn't seem right now, does it?

 

[Serzis]

Unlikely, but if your morale had time to drop to zero within 15 days of the initiation of battle, it may have resulted in a complete wipe due to a physical inability to retreat. Against 4 k it sounds awefully unlucky, but not impossible late in game since maintenance constitutes such a large part of your morale.

 

[1anrs]

Unfortunately it is something that can happen occasionally. What is even more annoying is when you have an army fighting and losing morale, send in reinforcements and then the day they arrive morale for the first group drops to zero and both armies are wiped out. I do not feel any shame reloading under those circumstances I can assure you!

Rebellions are one reason why I drop my army slider down to a minimum of 20%, never 0. As Serzis said, maintenance is pretty key to your morale level.

 

[camppa]

Instant annihilation should only occur if you're bankrupt. Even with your maintenance slider turned down all the way, it should take a few days for that many troops to lose morale against such a small opponent. Sounds like a bug.

 

[cuendillar]

If only the artillery had any remaining morale, that is what happens. I've lost several stacks that pursued a defeated enemy due to failing to notice that I won the previous battle with only the artillery fighting to the end. Since then, I try to always check by splitting off the artillery to see if the cav+inf stack has any morale left.

If your stack were at half morale due to maintenance rather than due to having just fought a battle, please dismiss this.

 

[1anrs]

If only the artillery had any remaining morale, that is what happens. I've lost several stacks that pursued a defeated enemy due to failing to notice that I won the previous battle with only the artillery fighting to the end. Since then, I try to always check by splitting off the artillery to see if the cav+inf stack has any morale left...

Something I had never even noticed, thanks for that.

 

[Acheron]

Thanks from me, too, that could had been my problem as well. I noticed that during the year, my land technology progressed, I got BOTH a new infantry and a new cavalry unit type, which I immediately selected. This apparently reduces morale, the army itself had only half of the morale, so the value for infantry and cavalry must had been even lower. I took more care to change unit types only when no battle was imminent and on the last day of the month and started winning again. Thanks again, I must say though that I think this to be poor design.

 

[Serzis]

That's the reason then. If you changed both inf and cav, the visible "half morale" would only have been full morale artillery -- and artillery can't hold the line for one day by themselves.

It's not that strange that morale dips when changing to a new unit type. Imagine that you would need to reequip every soldier with new rifles and uniforms, after which they would need to be retrained in order to form 'tercio/napoleon square/etc'-formations. Expecting them to fight properly without a few months training is a bit much to ask. Also, this can create some really interesting dilemma's i large scale MP wars, when you have to choose between continued fighting with lower tier armies, or face 4 months of vulnerability and lost initiative during retooling, followed by army superiority.

 

[St. Hubbins]

Greetings

I was confused by this same thing. I started playing EU3 only recently, and it is my first grand strategy game. I encountered this oddity very early, but the complexity of the game was so puzzling at first, that I couldn't really tell what actually was a bug and what was just weird game design. After a few days however, thanks in big part to the good wiki, I managed to get a handle on it, and I got convinced that this strange instant loss thing must indeed be a bug. So when it once happened right after a save, I tried if I could reproduce it. And I could. After that I searched for it online to see if others were experiencing it too and if there was a solution to it. And when I found this thread, I was surprised that even on the official forums most of the regulars aren't familiar with it. (Perhaps it isn't encountered as frequently if you play the more rational countries...) So I'm posting it here to shed some light on it.

I didn't really like most aspects of the game design either, but perhaps I could live with them. This bug however was a real game breaker for me. Now, I know that this game isn't a FOSS project but a rather old commercial title, so I don't presume the developers will fix it. I'm simply posting it for the sake of clarity.

Still, I liked the core idea of the game. Perhaps I should try their newest generation. I got CK2 last week for a bargain price in a Humble Bundle, I hope I will be much more happy with it. The reviews are very promising, and if I won't, well, it cost me practically nothing. Definitely will try EU4 too, if I catch it on sale.



As for the bug, here's the explanation: The rebels in Mogadishu are loosing, after the battle they retreat to Lamu and instantly destroy my army there (it has good morale). In the first save game, where they're still in battle, the bug doesn't occur every time, usually the rebels get defeated because of their lower morale when they get to Lamu. The second save game however, where they are already retreating, is one of the buggy outcomes, and they instantly destroyed the army in Lamu every time i reloaded it.

The version is EU3 Complete on Steam.

 

[thawitchking]

That happened to me some times super annoying but thankfully its rare

 

[Dauth]

Troops are built with 0 morale and therefore are easily defeated. Don't recruit near your front lines. Imagine sending absolutely fresh green troops out of the barracks after completing basic training and saying Fight.

 

[DABegley]

I have had that happen but I figured out why it happened to me. I would win a fight and pursue the loser to try and finish them off and one of two things would happen. It always happened when I would get to the next province before the end of the next month so I had no recovery and when either a new unit was built in the province I was heading to or a new unit arrived in that province before I got there. If my morale was low enough even if I had 30,000+ troops a single enemy regiment would cause my army to dissolve instantly. I learned to never pursue with very low morale even if the army I was chasing had even lower morale.

 

[St. Hubbins]

That happened to me some times super annoying but thankfully its rare

Well, rare isn't an exact measure, but I would say it happened to me rather often. On the other hand, I've played only two real games so far: one short with Native Americans and this long with Mutapa. Both of them low-tech tribes. Perhaps it isn't encountered as frequently if you play the more advanced nations. (Or in the last 2 expansions).

Troops are built with 0 morale and therefore are easily defeated. Don't recruit near your front lines.

The destroyed army hasn't been freshly recruited and has good morale, you can see it in the screenshot.

I have had that happen but I figured out why it happened to me. [...]

Neither of my armies is moving, no pursuing's going on. Only the rebels move. Also, I remember this happening when rebels just popped up in a province where I had an army. And I also had the impression that something with the months was involved somehow, but I guess that wouldn't be surprising, as a lot of the changes occur at the turn of the month.

 

[Serzis]

Now, I know that this game isn't a FOSS project but a rather old commercial title, so I don't presume the developers will fix it. I'm simply posting it for the sake of clarity.
/.../
The version is EU3 Complete on Steam.

You're playing an old version of the EU3 (In nomine[3.x], presumably) so if this is a replicatable save-related bug that few of us recognize, chances are that it is not present in the later versions of the game. EU3: Complete isn't "complete", but lacks the expansions Heir to the Throne and Divine Wind, which comprehensibly remodeled the game.

As for the full-morale army's destruction, I can only speculate. If an army is outnumbered 10-to-1, it should be wiped immediately -- but that should require actual number ratios and not regiment numbers (which I can't see in the screenshot anyway). Rebels spawning in African territory are usually much better than their human created counterparts, so coupled with a decent rebel general they should be able to inflict considerable damage. Still, unless extremely unlucky, there shouldn't be an instant wipe.

 

[St. Hubbins]

Indeed, it says 3.2 in the main menu. And yes, I know that there were two expansions after EU3 Complete. But I think the guys at Paradox have a strange definition of the words patch and expansion. An expansion is something which alters the gameplay or adds new content to it, while a patch fixes issues with it. And the two should be combined only when it's free, not when it actually costs more than the base game, as it is with EU3. On Steam the base game is 15€, while the last two expansions combined cost 20€. Bugfixes should be applied to the base game as well, you shouldn't have to pay for them. Then again, it isn't anything unique that a game gets abandoned before it had it's bugs properly addressed.

I found this thread in the meantime, it's probably about the same problem: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Entire-army-instant-defeat-on-arrival-in-area

The screenshot there doesn't look like In Nomine, though. Should be one of those newer expansions, as the guys say it's from vanilla, not their mod.

 

[TheArchMede]

There are several combat bugs where results at zero morale are applied to the wrong army in 3.2 and they only disappeared when the combat system was totally rewritten in a later expansion.

Its not just stack wipes, your army will kill its own soldiers and destroy its own morale when the opposing unit has zero morale.

 

[Tabanese]

'Yeah, take that!'

'Wait...Joe, they're running away. Should we pursue?'

'But they had the high ground. I ain't running up hill. Tell you what, we'll double back and attack the artillery line.'

'Sounds good to me.'



That isn't a bug; it's the recruitment of highlanders and Irish warriors.

 

[St. Hubbins]

I came back to add that I've played another game. I wanted to try the real gameplay of EU3 with an easier nation instead of those underdogs. I chose the Teutonic Order, and in more than 200 years I had this bug only once. So perhaps it is rarer with the more usual countries.


I got a bit bored of the game though. The beginning was very enjoyable, fighting the Russian states & expanding eastward, while constantly feeling threatened by Poland and Sweden, having to be prepared for their occasional backstabs. Later taking on the Golden Horde. I had three totally exhausting wars till I managed to overcome them. After 200 years however, the game got into a rut. From the HRE in the west to Tibet in the east and Mutapa in the south everything belongs to the Knights. The only remaining major players are Great Britain and France, but even they have less than half of my manpower and a third of my income. Perhaps I would play the game to the end, but the wars at this scale require so much micromanagement, especially because of the poor battle system and interface, that it sucks the enjoyment out of the game. But perhaps this shouldn't be the intended gameplay, anyway. Maybe the most fun is simply playing a nation till you reach dominance, and forget about world conquest.

 

[Kovax]

That's the point of playing an "underdog" country: it takes a lot longer before you become way overpowered, and quit due to boredom.

To me, the beginning couple of decades are tedious with a minor country, because it seems to take forever until you can really do anything significant. Usually, 1450-1550 are the best part, where you're powerful enough to deal with local threats, but are still reliant on your allies and the enemies of your enemies to keep from getting wiped by the "big blobs". Then you reach the size where you're one of those "blobs", then "THE" blob, and rather suddenly there's no challenge left. Playing a major power starts you half-way through the best part of the game.

 

[fulic1]

I got a bit bored of the game though... ...Maybe the most fun is simply playing a nation till you reach dominance, and forget about world conquest.

I recommend trying multiplayer with other players for more challenging and longer games.