Armies in CK2

[Zuru84]

Hi Guys,

Many times I heard that combat in CK2 is quite poor.
I heard that it doesn't matters what units do you have in your army.
As long as the number is bigger than number of units in your enemies army you will always win.
For example army of 1200 with poor units will always win with 600.
Is it true? I am sure we have many CK2 experts here
If yes, whats the point of having so many different units and upgrades in cities connected to units?

 

[Gamengervi]

I can't speak for the mechanics because I'm not too familiar with them, but I'd say, from personal experience, that that is untrue. I've had my stacks defeat stacks twice their size and, much more often, the other way around. I know that Heavy Infantry has a huge advantage over Light Infantry and I've heard that Pikemen are supposedly overpowered. I'd probably listen to someone much more experienced though or read up on the wiki.

 

[Sirrobert1]

Unit type does matter, but regular armies all have roughly the same mix, so it all comes down to numbers.
But, for example, tribal vs feudal armies, the Tribal army is mostly Light infantry, and the Feudal army is mostly Heavy infantry. The Feudal will win in equal numbers, and even when outnumbered.

With Retinues it's a little different, because the homogeneous armies can use those individual unit's strengths, while levy armies can't.

But in your example numbers, the poor units outnumber the good units 2 to 1. Such a massive difference in numbers overwhelms quality.

 

[Tapio]

In my current game I got careless because I had 5000 troops and the other guy had 2000 so I ended up losing the battle and 1600 troops while he lost 200.

 

[Chlodio]

Many times I heard that combat in CK2 is quite poor.

Anybody who claims so doesn't understand the system properly. Different units are weak against each other and have different stats depending if they're attacking or defending. CK2 has three flanks, each flank has a commander, tactic and composition. Tactic commanders are going use depends on their martial skill, personality and flank composition (you can manage it in most cases). Typically bigger army wins, because composition of flanks and leaders hasn't been well thought out.

 

[yonderTheGreat]

Anybody who claims so doesn't understand the system properly. Different units are weak against each other and have different stats depending if they're attacking or defending. CK2 has three flanks, each flank has a commander, tactic and composition. Tactic commanders are going use depends on their martial skill, personality and flank composition (you can manage it in most cases). Typically bigger army wins, because composition of flanks and leaders hasn't been well thought out.

THIS!

Most of us think that at first. We get frustrated at what we think is poor mechanics but really is just us not understanding the complex game. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't work AS WELL AS it should, but it's nowhere near broken.

Obviously getting feedback from the community is great, but if you REALLY want info, play multiple factions with multiple troop types and record the battle outcomes (as in... as soon as a fight starts, record the troop numbers and types and Commander info). Eventually you'll start noticing some very specific trends (for example, the above-stated Heavy > Light. And it'll start making beautiful, beautiful sense.

 

[Rags17]

I'm terrible at this game but in my experience if you mash armies against each other it does tend to come down to raw numbers. As you get better at the game though you can start to actually turn the odds in your favour in a big way.

For example, I used to just choose the commanders with the highest Marital skill, then I realised that if you hover over the shield and crossed weapons you can actually see their overall net bonus/penalty. Having a guy with 21 Martial is nothing if he is also Craven and Paranoid. Now I choose by net bonus, with gross Martial skill a deciding factor.

Second, you can put different commanders on different flanks to go with their bonuses, eg flank commander, Aggressive etc.

Third, the terrain you choose to fight on can have a HUGE impact - try forcing the enemy to cross a river to fight you in crap terrain and watch them die big time. In general defence is easier than offense so setting a up a good defensive position and letting them come to you is usually best (that is, if they take the bait).

Fourth, unit types have different capabilities against each other. As mentioned, Heavy Infantry will slaughter Light Infantry multiple times over, so building up a retinue/city guard of HI is great for smashing up enemy raiders. There are many matches like this - Heavy Cavalry vs Light etc.

Finally, the best trick I ever learned was tricking the AI into attacking you. Have one small stack of strong defensive infantry with a good leader with the main army sitting in reserve behind it. The odds are that the AI will grab the bai8t and attack your small force - while they are deeply engaged simply march in the rest of your army and overwhelm them. Great fun !

So yeah, the game is basically raw odds in the beginning, the better you get at the game the more you can swing the odds in your favour.

 

[Sirrobert1]

One of my favourite tactics, and especially helpful while defending against a Jihad, is Attrition.
Even if you're not a Pegan (who's attrition against non-pegans is insane. You can just watch armies melt away), you can inflict significant damage to Doomstacks by leading them through mountains for a while.
Then once you let attrition whittle them down, let them catch up to you in mountain terrain (large defensive bonus for you), while they have to cross a river (attacking penalty), will let you take on a significantly stronger force.