Armed forces by country - a reliable estimate

Armed forces by country - a reliable estimate

  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

This thread is more than 5 months old.

It is very likely that it does not need any further discussion and thus bumping it serves no purpose. If you feel it is necessary to make a new reply, you can still do so though.

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Hi guys,

I was exchanging some comments on the effective men available by country in 1936 but then a guy asked me to pull out some figures to compare game's figures with real ones. For this reason I am opening this thread to shred some light at least on the biggest players. I will reserve some posts to them and then I will update the data as soon as I will get new information.

In the picture below you can find the armed forces (in thousands) starting from 1939 but we need 1936 figures
image.png

https://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/public/ww2overview1998.pdf


Quoting from here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=212909&hilit=191649&start=15#p1927798
A good measure of the economy's capability for mobilization is the size of the army relative to total population:

France (1940): 5 million soldiers/42 million inhabitants (12%)
Germany (1943): 9.5 million soldiers/81 million inhabitants (12%)
USSR (1943): 12 million soldiers/130 million inhabitants (9%)
UK (1944): 5 million soldiers/48 million inhabitants (10%)
China (1948): 6.5 million soldiers/550 million inhabitants (1.1%)*

*June 1948 strength: 3,650,000 men for Republic of China, 2,800,000 men for People's Republic of China.

China in the civil war could mobilize only 1% of it's population, industrialized countries can mobilize 10 times the share. That's because the proportion of output that can be mobilized for war is much higher in industrialized countries, in China 90% of output was self sufficient agricultural products. You cannot recruit too many peasants because the population starves. So it's accurate to say that China could only mobilize perhaps 5% of it's national product, while Japan could mobilize 50%. Explaining why China's large PPP GDP couldn't be converted into fighting power.


Happy to work with everyone is willing to contribute. I will add your name next to each country
In this post there is a list of countries and each country has a link to its own post.

Below I report the enlisted men by country in 1936, the reservist and the total strength. For details about each country please follow the link: You will see what I have found, what has been discussed and the references.

Definitions:
1) Standing army available to the country. This number depends on the conscription law and, obviously, on the budget much more than on country's population
2) Trained reserves available in a short time (few weeks usually) in case of mobilization. This number depends on the conscription law and, obviously, on the budget much more than on country's population (see for example the USA)
3) Total manpower available in the long run (for example the USA needed 2 years to train a division). This number depends on the conscription law and, obviously, on the budget but in this case the key factor is the country's population.


USA - (xtfoster, tommylotto) - about 165k - reserve 155k - total strength 320k
Soviet Union - (Mokael) - about 1m - reserve 3m (increases each year by 1m) - total strength 4m
France - 900k -reserve 5m - total strength 5.9m
UK - 321k - reserve 160k - total strength 480k
Germany - (Anichent, Harada.Taro) - 600k - reserve 1.2m (increases each year by 1m) - total strength 1.8m
Japan - 200k - ?
Italy - (Anichent) - 1.2m - reserve 2m - total strength 3.2m
Australia - (Telsor) - 3k - reserve 80k - total strength 83k
India - ? - ?
Canada - 86K (in 1936 the army was reduced) - ?
Finland (Kovanki) - about 30k - reserve 285k - total strength 315k
Poland - (ETAPOIS) - about 320k - reserve 1.180 - total strength 1.5m
Belgium - (mighij) - 100k - reserve 450k - total strength 550k
Yugoslavia - 148k - reserve 1.25m - total strength 1.4m
Czechoslovakia - (IronChefX, Lolkar) - 220,000 - reserve 1m - total strength 1.28m
China (Marfach) - 600k - reserve 1.1m - total strength 1.7m
Austria - (Anichent) - 30k - reserve 120k - total strength 150k
Turkey - (McIltis, Hayro) - 194k - reserve about 1m - total strength 1.2m
Spain - (dark devil) - about 240k - reserve about 2.9m - total strength 3.14m
Greece - ? - ? - total strength 430k
Norway - ? - ? - total strength 100k
Denmark - (uzo70) - 6.6k - 55k - total strength 60k
Netherlands - 68k -reserve 202k - total strength 270k
Portugal - (Jolt) - 114k - ? - ?
Sweden - (Miinda) - 25k - reserve 225k - total strength 250k
Siam - (McChicken) - ? ? - total strength 60k
 
Last edited:
  • 9
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Germany

Here http://cronologia.leonardo.it/storia/tabello/tabe1639.htm it is reported a inquiry made available to Petain and submitted to the French Parliament on the German army. According to it the effective men in 1935 were

Reichsheer..400,000
Landespolizet ..100,000
S. S. Feldjàgerkorps...100,000
Total.. 600,000

The reserve, instead, was 5.5 million


From another source (thanks to Anichent) the labour corp adds 200k men to the army and the total reserve increases by 1m a year.
The strength of the army is more difficult to estimate. From the spring of 1934 to the summer of 1935 the Reichswchr was increased, in the first instance secretly, from 100,000 to 300,000 men. Recruitment was voluntary. A few mechanised units and modernised artillery batteries of small and medium calibre were simul- taneously organised and equipped, as was revealed during the army manoeuvres of the autumn of 1935. A force of 300,000 men was thus made the basis of the new conscription army which has been in process of organisation since the autumn of 1935, and is to reach an ostensible strength of 36 divisions, or 560,000 men. But the actual strength today is far greater, consisting as it does of 530,000 army, 30,000 armed police, 40,000 artillery, 200,000 labour corps. This total of 800,000 men is equal to 1914 strength

The General Staff is speeding up the training by calling to the colours two classes each year. One class serves in the labour corps, the other in the army. In 1935 the classes of 1914-15 were called up. In 1936 there will be the classes of 1916 and 1913, and so on year by year. Assuming a fitness-standard of approximately 80 per cent. the classes from 1910 to 1919 will provide 5,000,000 men, whose training will be completed in 1940.
http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/17th-april-1936/11/germanys-armed-strength



Hello I think you should read this and make yourself an idea of the military strength of germany in 1936.

GERMANY still keeps her own counsel regarding her actual military strength, and as a result widely divergent estimates are current of the number of her aeroplanes and aeroplane factories, the strength of her army and navy, the capacity and output of her war industry and, last but not least, her total expenditure on rearmament. In most cases the estimates are fantas- tically exaggerated. It was said, for example, at the end of 1935 that 200,000 workers were employed in the aero- plane factories and that the number of aeroplanes had reached the figure of 25,000. The estimates of expendi- ture run as high as 11,500,000,000 for the three years 1933, 1934, 1935. If these figures were accurate, or anything like it, the German military machine would be ready to strike, or the country's financial resources would be at the point of exhaustion, and the rearmament programme therefore be brought automatically .to a standstill. But there is no short cut to the evolution of military strength. Neither war-mindedness nor the best organisation in the world can replace a necessary minimum of material and time.

The creation of an air force is easier than that of an army or navy. In 1933 Germany had no experience of the construction of war 'planes. General Goering was there- fore compelled to buy the most modern 'planes and motors from British and American factories—to be precise, 176 motors, 2 freight 'planes and 6 mail 'planes at a total cost of 1,445,000 dollars. The German aeroplane industry then numbered roughly 7,000 workers. In April, 1935, this figure had increased to 20,000, accessory factories not included. During 1935 the rate of increase was accelerated. In April, 1935, a reliable authority put the number of 'planes at 1,630, i.e., 1,000 first line, 300 reserve and 330 instruction 'planes. Further it is stated that the aeroplane industry is capable of replacing lost and damaged 'planes to the amount of 50 per cent. of the total. Assuming the same rate of increase for the capacity of the factories, the air force at present numbers roughly 2,000 'planes. In April, 1935, the strength of certain other countries was as follows : Great Britain 1,43t Italy .. 1,507 France .. 2,286

When to this is added the strength of Russia, Belgium and Czechoslovakia, the total of these six countries may be put at approximately 10,000 planes. Goering aims

at building up a German air force equal to that total. But Great Britain and the other countries are increasing their air forces all the time. It is highly doubtful, therefore, whether Germany can reach any such total as theirs.

The Anglo-German Naval Treaty of June, 1935, allowed Germany to build up to 35 per cent. of t he British tonnage. Germany in 19:32 possessed a total of 130,000 tons. Under the treaty she can still build 183,750 tons of battleships, 118,650 tons of cruisers, 50,000 tons of destroyers, 25,000 tons of submarines.

From 1932 to 1935 the personnel of the German navy had increased from 15,000 to 34,000, which gives sonic indication of the amount of secretly constructed tonnage. The most interesting feature of this secret fleet is the mosquito flotilla consisting of 10 vessels of 600 tons, each armed with one torpedo tube and light guns. The vessels are believed to have a high speed. To achieve the permitted strength of 35 per cent. of the British tonnage will take roughly five years.

The strength of the army is more difficult to estimate. From the spring of 1934 to the summer of 1935 the Reichswchr was increased, in the first instance secretly, from 100,000 to 300,000 men. Recruitment was volun- tary. A few mechanised units and modernised artillery batteries of small and medium calibre were simul- taneously organised and equipped, as was revealed during the army manoeuvres of the autumn of 1935. A force of 300,000 men was thus made the basis of the new conscription army which has been in process of organisation since the autumn of 1935, and is to reach an ostensible strength of 36 divisions, or 560,000 men. But the actual strength today is far greater, consisting as it does of 530,000 army, 30,000 armed police, 40,000 artillery, 200,000 labour corps. This total of 800,000 men is equal to 1914 strength. But in 1914 7.5 per cent. of the whole population were trained ren.uits. To reach this same proportion today in the shortest possible time Germany is utilising a combination of labour corps and army. Every fit German has to serve six months in the labour corps, where lie learns discipline and simple drill. After that he gets twelve months' intensive training in the army. Any further enlargement of the standing army is tins likely, through lack of officers, barracks and material. ' The General Staff is speeding up the training by calling to the colours two classes each year. One class serves in the labour corps, the other in the army. In 1935 the classes of 1914-15 were called up. In 1936 there will be the classes of 1916 and 1913, and so on year by year. Assuming a fitness-standard of approximately 80 per cent. the classes from 1910 to 1919 will provide 5,000,000 men, whose training will be completed in 1940. This is exactly 7.5 of the population, the same proportionate strength as in 1914. If the classes from 1905 to 1909, which will be partly trained in short-term courses, arc taken into account, this total may be reached earlier, say in 1939. In other words, it will -take three years from now for the new army to reach full war strength. The army and the air force will he ready simultaneously, but the navy, which requires a construction-period of at least five years, will not. 13iit at the end of 1939 Germany will be the- strongest military Power on the Continent with an army, in particular, stronger than any other, even Russia's. • • But here comes the vital question. Can Germany stand the financial strain of so vast a programme ? The budget estimates for 1933-34, the last year when budget figures were published, show a total expendi- ture on armaments of 1,045,000,000 marks, or an increase of 30.7 per cent. over 1932-3:3. Of the budget of 1934-35 there is known only the estimate of the Air Ministry, which was about 210,000,000 marks, or an increase of 200 per cent. over 1933-34. To arrive at an estimate Of the total exPenditrire for the three subsequent financial years 1933-1934 to' 1935-36; let IN assume the basic expenditure of each year to be equ:d to the above mentioned sum of 1,045,000,000 mark., or a three years' total of 3,135 millions. The average' revenue for each of the three said years amounted to 8,212,000,000 marks, compared with 6,683,000,000 in 1932-33. During the three years, therefore, there could be spent out of revenue an additional 1,529,000,000 marks per year, or 4,587,000,000 marks for the three years. all of which probably went on rearmament. The total indebtedness of the Reich increased during the Same period by 3,350,000,000 marks.

- If to this- is added approximately 4,000,000,000 'marks of public works bills held by the Reichsbank and other banks (for part of the rearmament programme is disguised under the head of-public works) the aggregate expenditure during the three years is seen to amount to 15,072,000,000 marks, or, at the official 'quotation of sterling against marks, £1,222,000,000. This amount, incidentally, is equal to a sixth of Germany's -total expenditure during the Great War. It seems obvious, therefore, that for the present at any rate' Germany is far from either a state of financial collapse or complete military preparedness. By an increase of taxation, combined with the continuance of her low standard of living, she may well be able to carry through her rearmament -programme. Then the real menace to the peace of Europe will have- come.

Source is Bernhard Buchholz from a report he made on 17 april 1936. Buchholz has been commander of an artillery batallion during WWI then notary and in the politics as member of the Katolischen Zentrumspartei and attended the Reichtag.
"The Spectator" (the british weekly conservative magazine) edition of 17 april 1936 page 11.
 
Last edited:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
USA

In the 1930s the army was understrength (a battalion had 200 men). Anyway the nominal authorized strength in 1942 was 932. Then it dropped to 850 in 1943.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/690267.pdf

The onset of the Great Depression in the 1930s severely curtailed its funding for training and equipment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/45th_Infantry_Division_(United_States)

USA.png

Ronald H. Spector - Eagle Against the Sun: The American War with Japan


By 1921, Congressional appropriations had cut the Regular Army strength from 280,000 to 125,000 due to public pressure and economics.
dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA415899
Garry l. Thompson, Army Downsizing Following World War I, World War II, Vietnam, And A Comparison To Recent Army Downsizing



Until 1936 the Regular Army (i.e, not National Guard or its Cadres, Organized Reserves, or USMC but including the Air Corps), was limited to 125,000 Enlisted, 12,000 Officers. The roughly 7,000 serving in the Philippine Scouts did not count towards this number).
Mid-1935 Congress authorized the Regular Army to increase to 165,000 Enlisted (source doesn't mention an increase in Officers).

Source: AMERICAN MILITARY HISTORY
VOLUME II

THE UNITED STATES ARMY IN A GLOBAL ERA, 1917-2003
Richard W. Stewart, General Editor
Center of Military History
United States Army
Washington, D.C., 2005


For USA: I do not have any hard numbers for 1936, but I think there was a bit more there, there. The USA had three different organizations designed to supply infantry divisions to the Army -- Regular Army (RA), National Guard (NG) and Organized Reserve (OR). The peace time army consisted of 9 RA infantry divisions, 18 NG divisions and 33 OR divisions (see, Clay, United States Army Order of Battle) I think the idea was that due to the oceans and the navy, a large standing army was not necessary. However, in case of an emergency, like Pompey, they could raise legions by stomping their feet.

Regarding the RA:

Regarding the NG:

Regarding the OR:

I could venture an educated guess based on the information set forth in those long quotes in my post. It said the peace time NG divisions hovered around 6,000 to 8,000 men in the 1920's. So, let's say 7,000 men, times 18 NG divisions, equals 126,000 in the National Guard. The Organized Reserve divisions were shell divisions for future expansion as needed. They only had about 100 enlisted men but an full complement of commissioned officers (905). So, let's say 1,000 per Organized Reserve division, times 33 divisions, equals 33,000 in the Organized Reserve. However, the mere number of men is deceptive. The infrastructure was there to whip draftees through basic training and you would have as many as 60 infantry divisions (9 RA, 18 NG, and 33 OR). Not sure how well they would be equipped though, mostly likely WWI leftovers. This does not cover cavalry, marines, navy and air corps.


The number of soldiers in the USA Army in 1939 was 189,839
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
UK

Total Strength, UK Service Personnel (Regulars), as at 1 April each year. 320,800 (1935)


http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/sep/01/military-service-personnel-total

Military-numbers.gif


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...S6AWmkx87BFM/edit?hl=en_US&pref=2&pli=1#gid=1


In 1939 the regular British Army had a strength of 227,000 men, inclusive of British troops in India and Burma, and was organised in:



  • 2 regiments of the Household Cavalry
  • 20 regiments of cavalry of the line
  • 5 regiments of foot guards
  • 64 regiments of infantry of the line
  • the Royal Artillery
  • the Royal Tank Regiment
  • auxiliary units and services.
This force was supported by the Territorial Army which had a strength of 204,000 officers and men organised in a field force of nine infantry divisions, one mobile division, two cavalry brigades, and an anti-aircraft corps of five divisions. During 1939, there was a massive increase in the size of the Territorial Army as it was put on a war footing and by August it numbered 428,000 men.
The need to protect the large Empire meant that large garrisons had also to be maintained by these troop
http://ww2-weapons.com/british-and-empire-armies-1939/
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Soviet Union

1934
"In proof of this claim it was shown that in the last two years the Soviet Government had increased the strength of the Red Army from 562,000 men in 1932 to 940,000 in 1934."

http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/Pre-World_War_Two_Growth_of_Soviet_Army_1930s


Soviet Union

SOV.png

Walter Scott Dunn, The Soviet Economy and the Red Army, 1930-1945, page 60


hmm, I didn't like that source. Was some private site.
This one has slightly higher numbers, but it credits official RKKA site and documents from early 1940's. And the numbers looks close to what I have seen before (steady growth from 1 mil 1937 to 4 mil in 1941 with a crescendo of 11 mil in 1945)
1,582,090 as of Jan 1, 1937
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Рабоче-крестьянская_Красная_армия#.D0.A7.D0.B8.D1.81.D0.BB.D0.B5.D0.BD.D0.BD.D0.BE.D1.81.D1.82.D1.8C
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Canada

The deteriorating international situation and the obvious imbalances in militia organization led to reorganization in 1936. Non-Permanent Active Militia (NPAM) establishment was reduced from 15 divisions, or 134 000 men, to 7 divisions with 86 557. Some cavalry regiments were designated as "tank" regiments though no tanks were purchased, and by 1939 the number of artillery units had been increased from 97 to 155. The militia began to get new uniforms and equipment to replace WWI issue, and for the first time volunteers even received a pair of service boots.

In World War II Canada fielded an army of 3 infantry and 2 armoured divisions as well as 2 independent armoured brigades. Nearly 750 000 men and women served in the Canadian Army. In June 1940 the National Resources Mobilization Act authorized the government to requisition Canadians' services for home defence. In November 1944, after heavy casualties in Italy and Northwest Europe, the NRMA was amended to permit conscription for overseas service. Only about 2500 conscripts actually served in operational units during the last months of the war in Europe.
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/armed-forces/


Unit Listings - 1936
This is a listing of the units of the Canadian Army in 1936.

Permanent Active Militia (Permanent Force)

Cavalry


  • Royal Canadian Dragoons
  • Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians)

Infantry


  • The Royal Canadian Regiment
  • Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry
  • Royal 22e Regiment
http://canadiansoldiers.com/organization/unitlistingbyyear/unitlistying1936.htm

Further on Canada: I have been unable to find anything for 1936 so far but I found this "When war came in 1939 , Canada possessed only about 4500 professional soldiers, while the professional strengths of her naval and air forces were about 1800 and about 3100 respectively." This is from the official history by C.P. Stacey.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/oh-ho/detail-eng.asp?BfBookLang=1&BfId=33
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Last edited:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Italy

During the Second World War
An Italian Infantry Division normally consisted of two Infantry Regiments (three Battalions each), an Artillery Regiment, a Mortar Battalion (two companies), an Anti Tank Company, a Blackshirt Legion (Regiment of two Battalions). Each Division had only about 7,000 men, The Infantry and Artillery Regiments contained 1,650 men, the Blackshirt Legion 1,200, each company 150 men.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/30th_Infantry_Division_Sabauda

Alpine divisions had a strength of 17,460 men
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Alpine_Division_Taurinense

In 1936 (not during WWII) an infantry regiment had 3.279 men
Il reggimento di fanteria aveva una forza di circa 3.279 uomini e si articolava su:

comando e compagnia comando,

2 battaglioni di fucilieri (costituiti da una compagnia comando, 3 compagnie fucilieri, e una compagnia armi d’accompagnamento),

una compagnia mortai da 81 mm,

una compagnia cannoni someggiati da 47/32 mm su 3 plotoni di 2 armi
http://www.regioesercito.it/regioesercito/reorg.htm

Some calculations on the effective number of soldiers in 1936

ITA.png






In 1940 over 2,000,000 Italians were under arms, the 73 divisions of the Army being organised as follows:

  • 59 infantry divisions;
  • 6 Alpine divisions;
  • 3 mobile (celere) divisions;
  • 2 motorized divisions;
  • 3 armoured divisions.
In addition there were frontier guard troops whose number was estimated to be equivalent to nine divisions. Although an impressive total on paper, few of the divisions had their full complement of men and equipment.

The Italian Army in East Africa (Africa Orientale ltaliana or AOI) was impressive on paper with 88,000 Italian and 200,000 colonial troops but there were many weaknesses. The artillery was antiquated and reserves of equipment, supplies and ammunition were so low that the Viceroy and Commander-in-Chief, the Duke of Aosta estimated that in the event of war he could only hold out for six or seven months at the most.

In Libya, Italy suffered another disaster: eight divisions were destroyed and 130,000 men taken prisoner in Wavell’s offensive of 1941.

In Libya the Royal Corps of Libyan Troops was raised consisting of infantry and cavalry units. The two infantry divisions were destroyed in the fighting of 1940-41 and were only partially reformed, existing only as administrative depots. The cavalry was organised in groups of squadrons consisting of a headquarters and four squadrons of 150 men each.

The motorised saharan troops (Compagnia Sahariana) consisted of six companies organised as follows:

  • a headquarters platoon;
  • two or three machine gun platoons;
  • an anti-tank platoon;
  • a reconnaissance section of two to three Ghibli aircraft.
The strength of the company comprised 147 men, 20 motor transport vehicles, eight heavy machine guns and two 47mm anti-tank guns.
Camel-mounted troops were employed by the Saharan Command for desert patrol purposes and consisted of two companies, each of 280 men, four machine guns and 12 automatic rifles.

The Militia was organised into 14 Zonal Commands (roughly equivalent to Army Corps areas), and there were 133 Legions each with two battalions (one of men aged between 21 and 36 and a second territorial battalion with men up to the age of 55). The average strength of a legion was intended to be 1300 men, but legions were usually understrength for one reason or another. Total strength at the outbreak of war was estimated at 340,000 men.

http://ww2-weapons.com/italian-army-1940/

@Cardus Re: italy

Old newspapers are valuable: http://archive.spectator.co.uk/arti...rmies-of-europe-iv-italy-by-captain-liddell-h

"The actual number of the Italian Army is a variable quantity. In the past it has usually been about 400,000 men, but, shortly before the Abyssinian War it was raised to 600,000. In-addition the Fascist Militia totals some 400,000 men. The army, exclusive of the colonies, is organized in 13 Army-Corps, yielding a total of 31 infantry divisions. There are also three mobile divisions, mainly of motorized troops, with a small proportion of armoured vehicles. Tanks have not been much developed. There are a few hundred Fiat -tanks, but-these are very 'small and limited in obstacle-crossing capacity. . They are mainly used as armoured machine-guns to assist the infantry- attack."

So there you go, 600,000 regular troops and 400,000 fascist militia which I am guessing means an Italian version of the SS (probably means 400,000 worth of the Italian OOB should start as "green" and poorly trained). It also means Italy had 31 infantry divisions, plus 3 mobiledivisions, in Italy, not counting divisions in the colonies.

When you go into the colonial divisions you get at least 3 more divisions:
- Italian Libyan Colonial Division (3 regiments, 3 battalions each, plus 1 support battalion, and 1 artillery regiment) aka. "1a Divisione Fanteria "Libia""
- Italian 1st Eritrean Division (2 brigades with 4 battalions each, plus 1 mountain artillery battalion) aka. "1a Divisione Eritrea"
- Italian 2nd Eritrean Division (2 brigades with 5 battalions each, plus 2 mountain artillery battalion) aka. "2a Divisione Eritrea"

According to Italian sources, the military in Eritrea constituted 100,000 men in 47 battalions and 6 support companies (which VERY likely means it was not all Eritreans in it). Sounds like they may not have all been properly organized into divisions. (combining that with the above, it means of those 47, 19 were in the 1st and 2nd Eritrea divisions, as were 3 of the support companies).
Doing the math you can probably assign an extra 3 divisions for a total of 5 division equivalents normally stationed in colonial Eritrea, at minimum 1 in Libya. Putting Italy's number up to 40 divisions at least when Eritrea and Europe.

According to Italian sources, the battalions used in Somalia in 1936 to attack Ethiopia were eventually organized into 2 Somalian divisions (the 101 and the 102), meaning you add 2 more divisions to Italy raising the count to 42, with still only 1 accounted for for Libya (and I think we can be sure there was more than 1 division in Libya, meaning the game starting OOB is probably wrong).

Keep in mind "colonial" division made up of natives, which most colonial divisions actually were, were NOT counted as part of the "Italian army" until 1940, so adding the 100,000 Eritrean troops makes the total number for HOI4 Italy to at least 1.1 million. 100,000 were also "mobilized" from reserves implying we should also be taking .1 million from Italy's reserves and adding it to its 1936 army, meaning Italy's army then jumps to 1.2 million for 1936.

I cannot seem to find anymore for Libya though, yet.

So basically
OOB: 42divisions (minimum)
Army: 1.2 million (minimum), 400,000 of which should be considered "green"
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Spain

169,819 (Including the air-force and colonial troops)

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organización_territorial_del_Ejército_español_en_1936

Reserve 2.9m
Yes: Soldados a la fuerza. Reclutamiento obligatorio durante la guerra civil, 1936-1939. James Matthews. Traducción de Hugo García Fernández. Alianza. Madrid, 2013, 353 páginas. 30 euros.

"La República llegó a movilizar a 1,7 millones de hombres en 28 reemplazos, mientras que sus enemigos movilizaban a 1,2 millones de hombres en 15 reemplazos".

"The Republic came to mobilize 1.7 million men in 28 replacements, while their enemies mobilized 1.2 million men in 15 replacements".

So, in january 1936 there were around 2,9 M. (Draft-age men). Reservists.

Don´t miss it.

Totals:

Army forces: 237K
Reservist: 2,9M

Total strenght: Around 3.137.000 ... 3,1M.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Belgium

Belgium fielded 22 divisions against the invading forces of Army Group B in 1940, and the tenacity of the Belgian infantry at first surprised the Germans

The 100,000-strong Belgian Army under its Commander-in-Chief, King Leopold, was basically a standing army but one which relied on conscription for its annual intake of recruits. Its strength on mobilisation was in the region of 550,000 men, which for a small country of eight million people was a remarkable feat.
The country was divided into three army corps areas based on Brussels, Antwerp and Liege, a cavalry corps in Brussels, an army artillery brigade in Antwerp, the Ardennes Rifle Corps in Namur, as well as three independent frontier bicycle battalions, six infantry divisions, and two cavalry divisions.

The army corps comprised a staff, two infantry divisions, one corps artillery regiment, and one pioneer regiment.
http://ww2-weapons.com/belgian-armed-forces/

Belgium:
Organization and Equipment

The Belgian army counted 650 000 men (22 divisions). With another 150 000 men drafted in May 1940 to be sent to France to form reserve units. Totaling 800 000 men out of a population of 8 million In comparison it was three times a strong as the BEF (British Expeditionary Force). The majority were infantry divisions (all around 17 000 men strong), 2 divisions "Ardense Jagers" which were considered by the Germans as elite units, 2 divisions Cavalry (motorized infantry), a heavy artillery division, and several specialized regiments.

The infantry:

The infantry equipment was totally renewed after WOI. The standard gun was the 1935 Mauser. The automatic-gun Browning and the grenade launcher D.B.T. were good weapons. The standard anti-tank gun 47mm was one the best anti-tank weapons available at that time and could take out any tank (Panzer). This weapon would save many units during the eighteen days the Belgian army fought. Also to their disposal, 76mm mortars and Maxim machine guns.

Each division had three regiments of infantry, one reconnaissance unit, one regiment artillery and one-battalion engineers.

We need to make a difference between the active and 1st reserve divisions (12 divisions) and the 2nd reserve divisions (6 divisions). The first were fully equipped, but the 2nd reserve divisions, because of lack of budget were totally under-equipped. Meaning they lacked anti-tank weapons, mortars, machine guns, etc. In theory these divisions would be placed in quiet sectors of the frontline, but the events which occurred in May 1940 forced the Belgian army otherwise.

The "Ardense Jagers" divisions had additionally a battalion of AFVs to their disposal. Also their artillery was motorized and all regiments had bicycles, which made them quite mobile divisions.

On the whole the infantry lacked anti-air weapons and radios. The divisions also lacked sufficient mechanized transportation. During the war the divisions had to move mostly on foot. Also very painful was the low number of automatic guns. Something the Germans had plenty of.

The Cavalry

The cavalry was completely motorized, with about 270 AFVs and 16 tanks. The reason for this low number of tanks is merely political. The Belgian politicians were convinced that such an offensive weapon was inappropriate for an army of a neutral country.

    • T13 (5 tons, equipped with a 47mm anti-tank weapon and machine gun, only armour at the front
    • T15 (6 tons, completely armoured and equipped with a 13.2mm machine gun on a rotating copula
    • Renault AMC 35 (15 tons, equipped with 47mm anti-tank weapon and a 13.2mm machine gun). This was the only real tank.
The cavalry also had motorized artillery, sidecars and a lot of bicycles.

On the whole the cavalry divisions were good equipped but the lack of tanks was inexcusable.

The Artillery:

The Belgian artillery had around 20 different pieces (totaling 1338 pieces), which made supply rather complex. The standard artillery guns were 75mm and 105mm and the motorized ones 120mm. The heavy artillery division also had six pieces of 170mm and five of 280mm and one of 305mm but these pieces had to be used on railways and were very inaccurate. They dated from WOI and were originally German.

On the whole the Belgian artillery was very well trained and outclassed the German artillery in May 1940.

The Airforce

The airforce was the weakest point of the Belgian army. The Belgians didn’t have an industry like the Dutch, with Fokker, to built airplanes. Therefore they needed to buy modern ones. Unfortunately there was a shortage in the global market and the Belgian politicians realized too late how important this weapon was. Ultimately Belgium only obtained 9 hurricanes (not armoured) from Britain. Belgium had also ordered 40 Brewster Buffalos from the United States but these weren’t delivered on time.

So the Belgian airforce counted 140 planes of which 9 modern. The Belgian army was obliged to count on its allies to give sufficient air support, a very unwise judgement as during the whole eighteen days they could count on one hand the number of times allied planes intervened over the Belgian front.

On the whole the airforce was outdated and no match for the German Luftwaffe.

Source: http://home.scarlet.be/vdmeiren/The Campaign of the Belgian army in May 1940.html
 
Last edited:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Finland

I have only found data here http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=85140
According to that the army
1919 - 1939 varied between 78,000 - 120,000
and the OOB was

- HQ / Army Corps was at Viipuri (1934 - 1939)
- HQ / 1st Division was at Helsinki
- HQ / 2nd Division was at Viipuri
- HQ / 3rd Division was at Mikkeli
- HQ / Air Force and HQ / Naval Forces at Helsinki

Coastal artillery units:
Coastal Artillery Regiment 1 at Suomenlinna (Helsinki)
Coastal Artillery Regiment 2 at Viipuri
Coastal Artillery Regiment 3 at Sortavala (for the Lake Ladoga)
1st Separate Coastal Artillery Battalion at Hanko 1935 - 1939 (renamed Hanko Separate Coastal Artillery Battalion)
2nd Separate Coastal Artillery Battalion at Hamina 1935 - 1939 (new unit AFAIK)

Reserve were
Mobilisation strenghts of Finnish Armed Forces:
1919: 110,000 men
1925: 150,000 men
1930: 200,000 men
1934: 315,000 men

For Finland:

Standing army: The standing army would be roughly the number of men in their compulsory military service plus professional core, that is 25,000-35,000 men. The peace-time units are 1st, 2nd and 3rd division, the cavalry brigade and 1st, 2nd and 3rd coastal artillery regiments.

Reserves: The mobilization strengths in the 1930s were: 200k (1930), 315K (1934) and 337k (1939 for Winter War). The number of mobilized divisions increased from 6 to 9 in 1934.

Untrained reserve: Number of untrained, military capable men was 71k in 1940, that would be 50k-60k for 1936.

Sources:
1. Juutilainen, A. (1999). Puolustussuunnitelmat 1930-luvulla. In: Leskinen, J. and Juutilainen, A., ed., Talvisodan pikkujättiläinen, 4th ed. Helsinki: WSOY, pp. 65-69.
2. Palokangas, M. (1999). Suomalaisjoukkojen aseistus ja varustus. In: Leskinen, J. and Juutilainen, A., ed., Talvisodan pikkujättiläinen, 4th ed. Helsinki: WSOY, pp. 299-301.
3. Raikkala, H. (1966). Suojeluskuntain historia III. 2nd ed. Vaasa: Hata Oy, p. 359.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Romania
 

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Hungary
 

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Bulgaria
 

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Greece

No info to show on Greek army in 1936.



Here http://ww2-weapons.com/greek-armed-forces/ some info on the army in 1940

The field army was organised in two Army Groups, six general headquarters, six infantry and nine mountain divisions, four mountain brigades and one cavalry division. At the outbreak of war the Army numbered 430,000 men, but losses were heavy and some 60,000 men were killed, wounded or missing after the winter fighting.
 
Last edited:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Yugoslavia


Yugoslavia had a standing army and the male population was liable for military service from the age of 20. The first one and a half years was done in the active army, followed by 18 years in the reserve, and a final ten years in the reserve of the reserve army. The peacetime strength of the Army was 148,000 and mobilised strength approximately 1,400,000 men.
http://ww2-weapons.com/yugoslavia-armed-forces/
 
Last edited:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Czechoslovakia

If time allows it I will look for some reliable sources. For now I could give you the numbers on Czechoslovakia in 1936:
~220.000 in the army
~60.000 reserve

Sources:
Oswald Kostrba-Skalicky: Bewaffnete Ohnmacht. Die tschechoslowakische Armee 1918–1938. In: Karl Bosl (Editor): Die Erste Tschechoslowakische Republik als multinationaler Parteienstaat. Oldenbourg, München 1979.

Marian Zgórniak: Europa am Abgrund – 1938. Lit, Münster 2002.


Before 1938, the 1,500,000 strong Czech Army was one of the largest in Europe. A

http://ww2-weapons.com/czech-national-army-in-exile/

Czechoslovakia at the end of September 1938
http://armada.vojenstvi.cz/predvalecna/cisla/2.htm
From top:
People
Horses
Trucks
Guns (Only new models)
Pistols (Only new models)
Machine guns (Only new models)
Minomet(little mortal) (Only new models)
AT guns (without AT guns used in fortifications)
Field artillery (including 40 heavy artillery)
Light tanks
Armored cars
Small tanks (worse than lt)
Armored trains
Airplanes
Anti aircraft machine guns
Anti aircraft guns
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

Cardus

Field Marshal
15 Badges
Feb 11, 2007
4.679
786
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Austria

Austria was subject to force limits based on treaty. If you find that you should be able to find at least a rough estimate of what they had:

http://digital.library.northwestern.edu/league/le0282ad.pdf

and

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpofcp30ldl0bqc/Austrian 1938 Army Capability.pdf


"Complying with Italian suggestions, Jansa reorganized the 6 brigades of the Austrian army into 7 divisions, one brigade (8th) and an armoured division and set out to modernize the battalions with motorized regiments. The goal of divisions 1 - 5 was to obtain 3 regiments with 3 battalions each, whilst the 6th division sought for 7 and the 7th division 6 battalions respectively. In addition, each division received an infantry cannon unit, a light artillery unit, a pioneer battalion, a telegraph battalion and a reconnaissance unit . The 8th brigade was to have both 4 battalions and brigades. The fire power of the infantry battalions was to include 600 rifles, 27 submachine guns, 27 light machine guns, 4 light mortars, 4 infantry cannon and in the MG-Company, ~6 heavy machine guns.


The armoured division followed the Italian model with tank units, motorized infantry units and calvary regiments. It contained five tank companies: 4 consisting of the 72 Italian light tanks (models Fiat-Ansa1do CV33 and CV35); whereas the 5th displayed Austro-Daimler' s updated model ADGZ . Although the tiny 2-man Italian models offered speed, they were only a match for the German tank Mark 1; Mark II and Mark III being of superior quality. However, the Austrian ADGZ was more advanced and afforded a greater fire power . Unfortunately, in March 1938, the Austrian army had only 12 such models. With respect to the munitions r inventory for the 2 cm M35 tank weapon, the Austrian army had an adequate supply for approximately three days .

First document page 26 - the Austrian Army was composed by 30k soldiers
Thi is conformed in the second document. The mobilization could add 120k even though Mussolini urged for a mobilization force up to 20 divisions i.e. 250k soldiers.
 
Last edited: