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ozman2

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DH is Darkest Hour. But I have a better idea. Write them up in event form and I'll package it with my Cold War Tech Tree. MIB seems inactive these days. In my own mod I've incorporated many CCIP ideas though I've added my own wrinkles.
Hmm, is anyone still working on this? I'm terrible with editing. But I have some quite major additions I'd like to add.

I have additional historic land claims for Manchukuo (Outer Manchuria, owned by the soviet union, briefly united with inner Manchuria during the Japanese intervention in Siberia), Tibet (Historical land claims from the 1932 sino-tibetan war) and possibly different areas for Xibei San Ma (Home provinces of the Hui people and historical capital in Gansu) if it were to be liberated. Most of these changes coincide (and present many different optional paths) with the Japanese invasion of 'Greater East Asia'...and builds a better picture of China under Japanese hegemony, instead of random unclaimed areas with high partisan activity under Japanese control.

What would be great are the following events:

1. Tibet offers to join the Japanese sphere after defeat of Chinese, gaining their claimed historical lands. (cooperation with the maker of the Tibetan historical pack for this? If anyone can find the guy)

2. Choice to give Outer Manchuria to Manchukuo after Bitter peace event with the Soviet Union.

3. Sinkiang(east Turkestan) offers to join the sphere after defeat of China (new ministers needed...not sure who, but definitely not the Sheng Shicai government because of it's cosy relationship with the Soviets).

4. (optional, possibly historically impossible to some)The chance for Japan to take a less dominating role and release some of it's puppet states? (Interviews have shown that most the Japanese "puppets" weren't exactly fine and happy with Japanese control, seeing as Japan were purely focused on themselves. After the defeat of China or the allies in the pacific, these puppet states could eventually question the extent of Japanese control). This could maybe satisfy those who are more interested interested in Manchukuo/Mengkukuo/Tibet etc.

5. (completely optional, possibly historically impossible) Muslim state of Xibei San Ma (land of the three ma's) released in Gansu Province (will need some IC, manpower etc)



I'll hopefully be able to illustrate the picture of China that I'm painting very soon with screenshots. I hope someone will be impressed to enough to implement these hefty changes.
1) I'm interested in the Sino-Tibetan war for my 1931 mod project and agree with your suggestion for Tibet. Tibet would be a VERY likely collaborator. As for the Soviet areas, I suspect they'd release Primorsk, reminiscent of what they actually held between 1918-1927.
2) Interesting, will have to study further. It can be argued either way.
3) Actually Sheng Shicai was very mercurial and just wanted to be on the side that could give him power. He actually deserted the Soviets when the war with Germany initially went bad. I have no problem with him choosing to collaborate with Japan if the ai chooses this. In my own modding I have East Turkestan as the state to be released if there's nothing in the area. Mohammed Ali Bughra would be a very credible Japanese collaborator. He was leader of the First East Turkestan Republic. Japan was known to cooperate with non-Chinese ethnic groups in China.
4) Maybe that should be up to individuals to create their own events
5) One of my interests is the 1932-36 series of mini-wars between China and Japan, most of which ended with China signing a humiliating peace treaty with the Japanese. If you're aware of that history it's impossible to believe anybody but known collaborators (most of whom collaborated with Japan because of grudges against Chiang or because they lost out in the warlord wars) would cooperate with Japan, or that Japan would trust them. So while in my own modding Japan can still release these warlord states, they will be faceless and missing a few leaders. And of all the warlords, the Ma warlords were the ones that hated Japan the most and also the ones Japan feared most, because they actually butchered some of the Japanese soldiers they captured, and Japan didn't want to fight them after that. Yes I'm sure Japan would find people to work for them, but most likely most of them would be people we've never heard of.
 
Last edited:

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That sounds great! Well, I could write up the details of the event itself, but what the event changes on the map etc. I have no idea how to do that at the moment. Would you know how to do this? I'm sure if we kept collaboration tight knit, it could work out extremely well. I only know so far how to change province details which exist from the start of campaign...so I'm pretty useless in terms of editing the game.

Anyway
For point 2, I've looked into it as much as I can...and matched the historical area as best I can. Basically, Outer Manchuria was part of the Qing dynasty, before Russian treaties gradually swallowed up the area. The peoples republic of China actually considered whether to claim Outer Manchuria during the collapse of relations between them and the USSR.

3. Maybe the Shicai cabinet should have it's Russian ministers removed after changing sides. It's in his nature it seems, seeing as he ended up murdering members of the Chinese Communist party, including Mao's brother, while they were on a visit. Apparently this was because he feared a conspiracy. He's an obvious game player.

4. I've thought about this, and maybe this could be avoidable through Japanese intervention. The Japanese lose a certain amount of manpower and resources through bribing, political assassination (there were attempts on Puyi's life numerous times because he was deemed "too powerful" and was constantly at odds with the Japanese, and a lot of his ministers were mysteriously killed and replaced by Japanese ones) and troop movements. It could be necessary for Japan to consolidate it's power or face resentment from it's ever independent puppets.

5. After a bit of research, I completely agree. The Ma's declared a jihad on the Japanese...the scenario's impossible.

I said I would illustrate what I meant before, and I prepared it, so I might as well show the rearranged map of 'greater east asia'. Tell me what you think



I coloured Gansu province (xibei san ma) yellow on paint...the only thing missing is the amount of territory held by Japan in Siberia after bitter peace (I simply rushed china and cheated as japan)

So, I'll be completely happy to help out with details. You're free to nab any idea for your own. Just let me know.
 

ozman2

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2) An event could add the claims, which I'm aware of
3) The only blatantly pro-Soviet minister I know of is Mao Zemin, who is not in vanilla but is in my mod. Technically, Shicai was the appointed governor of the province but found that due to his remoteness he could in the early stages do what he wanted and knew that the Soviet Union was his most likely ally in consolidating power, which meant the defeat of both the Ma warlords and the East Turkestan independence movement. Many of his ministers were actually people associated with the First East Turkestan Republic who switched sides.

Your map looks very well thought out for western China. If we're going to give Manchukuo the Qing claims that would IMO make Primorsk a non-viable state, so Japan would have to directly occupy it or get to Novosibirsk in order to release Siberia.
 

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Mao Zemin was actually killed by Sheng Shicai in 1943...so I can see this matching up quite nicely. Just move the execution date closer to correspond with Japan's success. Also, are the Russian members in his cabinet not pro-soviet? All i know is that they're Russian in name, nothing more.

Hmm, well when bitter peace fires, Japan gets land all the way up to Tannu Tuva I think. It's not a hard lot of land to take care of...also, I'm not sure if there's any partisan activity in the area at all after it's captured as far as I can remember. Primorsk is a very strange state...I don't recall any people pushing for any independent state in that area other than Siberia during the Japanese intervention in the area. But Japan could take the Primorsk province itself (up until the Amur river?) and let Manchukuo have what's left of the north. This way they have complete access to the sea of Japan on both ends. Either that or a naval base in Vladivostok? It's really up to you when it comes to Manchuria...I like the land as it is, but I'm also a big fan of the Qing dynasty, which makes me biased!
 

ozman2

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Oh you are a big fan of the Qing? Then you'll love the Fatherland scenario of my Cold War Extension. The Qing get a chance to kick ass in that one.
 

TremblingBlue

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I've been meaning to download it! I really need to sort out my files etc. Sounds like a great pack, especially if it's blended in with the CCIP. Sounds perfect really.
 
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I really liked this mod and have been playing around with the Chinese tech teams myself. This may be a bit late but I'll post the icons I've made in case some other modders may find them useful.

chi:


1000; CAMCO


1001; Dading Aircraft Engine Factory


1002; Hanyang Arsenal


1003; Nanking Arsenal


1004; Chung Hing Coal Mining Co.


1005; Alexander von Falkenhausen


1006; Chiang Kai-shek


1007; Claire Chennault


1008; Central Aviation Academy


1009; Chan Shao-kuan


1010; Kiangnan Dock and Engineering Works


1011; Taikoo Dockyard Engineering Company
(only avaliable if the UK cedes Hong Kong)


1012; Hong Kong Whampoa Dockyard
(only avaliable if the UK cedes Hong Kong)


1013; Academia Sinica


1014; Whampoa Military Academy


1015; Wang Shu-ming


1016; Yung Li Chemical Industries


1017; National Resources Commission


1018; Mawei Shipyard & Naval School


1019; National Tsing Hua University


1020; SACO (avaliable via Pitman Act event)


1021;Min Sheng Shipping Company


1022; CSIST


1023; Chung Ming Charcoal Automobile Co.


1024; Air Force 1st Aircraft Factory


1025; Air Force 2nd Aircraft Factory


1026; Chungking Ordnance Factories


1027; Sun Li-jen


1028; Lin Tung-hua (aerojet engineer)


1029; Wu Ta-you


1030; Combined Logistics Command
 
Nov 2, 2011
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chc:


8300; Deng Xiaoping


8301; Lin Biao


8302;Mao Zedong


8303; Huangyaidong Armory


8304; Liugou Iron Works


8305; Military-Political University of the Resistance
(suceeded by National Defence University after end of Sino-Japanese War)


8306; General Supplies Department


8307; Li Kenong


8308; Fang Zhiyi


8309; 296 State Arsenal


8310; 626 State Arsenal


8311; Fudan University


8312; Armored Force 201 Research Institute


8313; PLA National Defence University


8314; Shenyang 601 Design Institute


8315; Xi'an 603 Design Institute


8316; Chengdu 611 Design Institute


8317; China Flight Test Establishment


8318; Chinese Academy of Sciences


8319; Anshan Iron and Steel Company


8320; Changchun 1st Automobile Works


8321; Inner Mongolia 1st Machinery Factory


8322; Harbin 1st Machinery Factory


8323; Qian Sanqiang (nuclear physicist)


8324; Qian Xuesen


8325; Cheng Kaijia


8326; Dalian Naval Academy


8327; Dalian Shipyard


8328; Ship Science Research Center


8329; Xiao Jingguang


8330; Harbin Military Engineering Institute
 

Porkman

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My link on the page before this one works.
 

Rimland

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Does anyone have the CCIP gfx pack available? As the links here don´t work, I can´t get my hands on it..