Are Aristocratic ideas actually good now? I happened to glance at them earlier and I think they may be worth taking now!
Aristocratic ideas in 1.8 Art of war.
- Thread starter Lordgoogler
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Aristocratic ideas have always been pretty good, although now that leader stats matter less their usefulness might have decreased. On the other hand, they come with a ton of nasty events, so don't take them as your first, second, or maybe even third idea group.
I never saw what the hoo-haa was about humanist ideas until I used it and their events started to fire.
Needless to say the events behind the ideas seems practically more important than the ideas themselves. With that in mind Aristocratic can be bad.
Needless to say the events behind the ideas seems practically more important than the ideas themselves. With that in mind Aristocratic can be bad.
I usually always take Aristocratic + Offensive + Quantity ideas for insane manpower, shock and fire bonuses.
I mostly take Aristocratic when I'm surrounded by larger countries eyeing my provinces - the +100% core-cost modifier is a good deterrent and a absolute no-brainer if your neighbour's France. The -5% miltary tech cost aren't bad, either. 
I was planning on taking Aristocratic ideas as Japan mainly for the reduced technology cost. Unfortunately I haven't progresses far enough to unlock a 3rd idea group and Exploration + Expansion is just too good to pass up.
I'm of the opinion that negative events from ideas should simply be removed from the game. They don't effect gameplay positively in any way except by adding flavor, and positive events already accomplish that. Sure you could argue that having negative events from your ideas is more historical. But in that case at least severely diminish their negative effects or have one negative event for each idea-group so that you can plan around it.
The aristocratic events aren't that bad. Usually you can pick a joke rebellion over another bad event, there's only 1-2 that hurt but most idea groups have them, even ones widely regarded as top tier like administrative in single player which has a stab hit event. Aristocratic is good for cavalry nations, early investment for ROTW, scumbagging MP with culture conversions, and its extra leader. Getting a diplomat in a non-diplomatic group (as well as -WE cost for you fellow truce breakers) is handy too.
Aristocratic ideas were great in 1.7, I`m not sure why they would become bad in 1.8.
If anything, the extra diplomat became much more valuable, so did the reduced war exhaustion cost.
Cavalry seem even more powerful than in 1.7, as infantry`s pips were nerfed, and at least in western tech, cavalry can have really high shock pip advantage over infantry even at tech 30.
Some nations, that have cavalry bonuses, are also very much inclined to take those, while infantry-based should avoid this idea.
If anything, the extra diplomat became much more valuable, so did the reduced war exhaustion cost.
Cavalry seem even more powerful than in 1.7, as infantry`s pips were nerfed, and at least in western tech, cavalry can have really high shock pip advantage over infantry even at tech 30.
Some nations, that have cavalry bonuses, are also very much inclined to take those, while infantry-based should avoid this idea.
The pips were changed, that is in the patch log. For western high-tech infantry, there seem to be fewer pips.
for example:
prussian drill infantry in 1.7:
and same unit in 1.8:
Napoleonic square also has 2 less pips in 1.8, so I think it is pretty consistent across the board, but I`m too lazy for proper research.
As of 1.8, I'm less inclined to pick Aristocratic cause of weak policies. Policies now are fantastic across the board and should be always taken into consideration. Some might say that it's now balanced with the rest of the sets, though.
Aristocracy into offensive as first and second ideagroup is very strong if you wanna assert dominance early. It just throws the miltechcost into the ground leaving you to utterly ignore mil MP for the rest of the game.
People also seem to forget the extra leader...
Also cav bonus, with leader shockbonus is insane the first decade. People seem to forget that cav has an extra 2 shock modifier from tech at the first few levels.
People also seem to forget the extra leader...
Also cav bonus, with leader shockbonus is insane the first decade. People seem to forget that cav has an extra 2 shock modifier from tech at the first few levels.
I mostly take Aristocratic when I'm surrounded by larger countries eyeing my provinces - the +100% core-cost modifier is a good deterrent and a absolute no-brainer if your neighbour's France. The -5% miltary tech cost aren't bad, either.
In my current game two of my big scary neighbours have the "Wants your provinces" opinion modifier. Can Aristocratic ideas help make that go away? It's only poor Tibetan lands, so I don't know why they'd want it in the first place
What changed was mostly just the results of extreme rolls. So a 6/6 general will no longer wipe the floor with a leaderless army quite so thoroughly. A 6/6 against a 4/4 is about the same advantage as it used to – in fact it's probably more consistent since the 4/4 outlucking on the first shock phase doesn't level the field as much as it used to. That is, if you go against lucky nations, you still want every leader point you can have. Stacking it all the way to 6 is just no longer as great an advantage.
(I'd look at the math in detail, but I can't be bothered to reverse engineer the minutiae. Apologies if I've missed something.)
Probably taking lands of a different culture, converting it to your own so that initial tags lose their cores on the converted province, and take Aristocracy with the +100% coring cost so that your ennemies have no other choice (before client state) than to pay the hard price of direct coring your province (and thus will be less inclined to take them in the first place).
A fine example is Bohemia: You take Saxon-culture lands that you convert when Saxony doesn't exist and there is no nationalism, you take Aristocracy early, and cherry on top, you have another +100% coring cost modifier. Now your land is too expansive to core, congratulation.
Probably taking lands of a different culture, converting it to your own so that initial tags lose their cores on the converted province, and take Aristocracy with the +100% coring cost so that your ennemies have no other choice (before client state) than to pay the hard price of direct coring your province (and thus will be less inclined to take them in the first place).
A fine example is Bohemia: You take Saxon-culture lands that you convert when Saxony doesn't exist and there is no nationalism, you take Aristocracy early, and cherry on top, you have another +100% coring cost modifier. Now your land is too expansive to core, congratulation.
Berbers, Dai Viet, Rajputs, and Georgia share this annoyance. You can get +200% coring cost (which gives a base 60 ADM or 30 DIP per tax). Berbers have the added benefit of being Muslim tech (80% cavalry ratio) and having an NI that boosts cavalry.
Aristocratic have zero filler ideas (useless ideas) and it give you non military advantages which is good.
It also have some good policies like one diplomat + one diploreputation but nothing like quality 20% trade efficiency however that may be the best policy in the game.
It also have some good policies like one diplomat + one diploreputation but nothing like quality 20% trade efficiency however that may be the best policy in the game.
It doesn't go away, though they still leave you alone. They may desire your provinces, but actually conquering them? No.In my current game two of my big scary neighbours have the "Wants your provinces" opinion modifier. Can Aristocratic ideas help make that go away? It's only poor Tibetan lands, so I don't know why they'd want it in the first place