Aristocratic Elite is not strong in late game

[trojan1234]

What if I told you you can swim in CG and Alloys without having any mineral dsitricts?

When you swim in alloy, go conquer other empire.

 

[Copperwire]

You are missing the point. The economies of endgame are all sort of silly and can be freakish and varied. It is how fast you get there. For getting there, AE is one of the stronger methods, and no method really matters much once your there.

When you have a 6x tech lead over all other empires and 10x the fleet of them all combined, conquering is lame.

 

[trojan1234]

You are missing the point. The economies of endgame are all sort of silly and can be freakish and varied. It is how fast you get there. For getting there, AE is one of the stronger methods, and no method really matters much once your there.

When you have a 6x tech lead over all other empires and 10x the fleet of them all combined, conquering is lame.

I think you overrate Aristocratic elite. Let me repeat my point once again :

When you are limited by pops, Aristocratic Elite isn't civic for that stage. Even without any other bonus, 1 noble needs 33 other pops on the planet to make profit because 5% stability or 3% production bonus on 33 pops is 0.99 pop worth production. Which means just to make the noble pop working in other job is more productive in terms of production per pop. But in reality, there is enough bonus from techs or traditions when your planets have around 33 pop each, making noble is waste of your pop at that moment.

If you think 600 workers on 20 planet economy is end game and it only matters how fast you get there, Aristocratic elite isn't civic for that purpose.

 

[Copperwire]

Limited by pops is pretty unclear. It might help if you were more specific. Do you mean before you refocus from raw pop growth/expansion to research? Do you mean when you only have so many and want more?

"Aristo to Pop to make a profit ratio" isn't a constant, if for no other reason then if your stability is low enough it instead provides penalties and a chance of revolt. The periods of the game where that is likely to be a problem you might use AE to solve are pretty early.

Past that, you are not using a point of comparison; ie, what a normal admin would do to benefit the same colony or what you could get with the civics pick instead. You use building a Noble house as your example, yet the more common application is the colony admins you do not use a building slot for.

Done that way, you could define both when AE is good and when it is not.

Like about everything in Stellaris, it is situational.

 

[Currywurst44]

Say you have 600 non slavery workers in 20 planets (basically covering 15 resource districts with 30 workers per planet). Decent condition requires 600*0.25=150 cg as base needs and stratified economy requires 600*0.15=90 cg as base needs. Even if those 20 planets are 20% habitability(definitely higher than this), stratified economy only saves 60*1.8 = 108 cg. Sounds alot but in reality it is just production of one industrial districts. This is proportional to number of workers like stratified economy saves 216 cg when you have 1200 non slavery workers.

I think your math is a little off. Assuming 20% Habitability each worker consumes 0,45 Consumer Goods with Decent Conditions and 0,18 with Stratified Economy. 600*0,45=270 CG ; 600*0,18=108 CG ; 270-108=162 CG. Now assuming 50% a production bonus for specialists and 100% for workers. To produce 171CG(162+9 upkeep) you would need 19 more Artisans and at least 40 more pops to support all of their other upkeep.
Ignoring all of that. The most direct comparison is that you could produce 80 more Alloys by using stratified economy.

 

[trojan1234]

I think your math is a little off. Assuming 20% Habitability each worker consumes 0,45 Consumer Goods with Decent Conditions and 0,18 with Stratified Economy. 600*0,45=270 CG ; 600*0,18=108 CG ; 270-108=162 CG. Now assuming 50% a production bonus for specialists and 100% for workers. To produce 171CG(162+9 upkeep) you would need 19 more Artisans and at least 40 more pops to support all of their other upkeep.
Ignoring all of that. The most direct comparison is that you could produce 80 more Alloys by using stratified economy.

I made mistake in base cg needs it should be 0.1 not 0.15. You are correct.

 

[trojan1234]

"Aristo to Pop to make a profit ratio" isn't a constant, if for no other reason then if your stability is low enough it instead provides penalties and a chance of revolt. The periods of the game where that is likely to be a problem you might use AE to solve are pretty early.

I never said it is constant. The number 33 pop is when all pops are just produing base production. "Aristo to pop to make a profit ratio" is just simple as 'average production efficiency of planet times 100/3 if stability is over 50, 100/5 if stability is less than 50'. For example, a planet of 0% stability and no production bonus at all, has 10 pops. Noble increases 10*0.05 = 0.50 pop worth base production while making the noble work in other job produce 0.5 pop worth base production. However, remember this ratio depends on each planet's stability.

I understand your point. Production efficiency can be less than 1 if one goes early conquer primitives or other empires. You can make few slave worlds where you just throw all livestock and slaves and other important planets such as alloy world or tech world can be at higher stability. I prefer this specialization because upgrading planet capital provides more ruler jobs then naturally drives up stability because of their higher political power. If planets have lower stability because of low amenities, it is better to use one entertainer than noble, because negative 10 amenities causes -20% happiness or -20% approval rating, which lead to -12% stability.

 

[AlanC9]

I

I Even without any other bonus, 1 noble needs 33 other pops on the planet to make profit because 5% stability or 3% production bonus on 33 pops is 0.99 pop worth production. Which means just to make the noble pop working in other job is more productive in terms of production per pop.

Hey, wait a minute. The production bonus gives you more production without more inputs except for the upkeep of the noble himself. 103% production at about 100% cost is a lot better than 103% production at 103% cost.