Are there ways to help Qing Empire Westernize faster?

[Nerva]

I'm playing USA and would like to drive up immigration -- I have read that Uncivilized countries do not have emigration/immigration, and since Qing Empire has by far the largest population, the sooner they Westernize, the more immigration to the USA. So, are there any ways the USA can help Qing Empire Westernize faster?

 

[TorJado]

Off the top of my head, you could try to somehow ally them, or at least get Military Access, and crush every rebel stack they get, and defend them from other powers.

 

[Secret Master]

The only thing you could possibly do to help would be to kill all rebels to prevent reactionaries from revoking reforms.

I don't think they will ally or give you military access, though.

 

[Nerva]

The wiki says that Westernization requires both Prestige score and Military score. The latter should not be much problem for China, so I would think what's holding them back is their Prestige score. Their own research can help with that, but winning wars and battles also helps. I'm playing as the USA and so it is unlikely I will get Qing Empire to ally with me anytime soon, so I'm thinking the only way to help them win is to give them War Subsidies and to go to war with countries they are at war with.

 

[Jorlaan]

A player can westernize China in about 10-15 years with a little luck. All you need to do is declare a war of conquest on neighbors like Dai Nam, Korea and such and then release as satellites to lower some infamy. You'll rack up so many RP's it's stupid. Just make sure you have at least one of those military reforms first that gives RP on conquest.

As another country trying to help someone westernize then bring relations to full, ally if possible and help quash rebellions. If you can invest in them that helps too.

 

[DesNibelungen]

The wiki says that Westernization requires both Prestige score and Military score.

I think the wiki is out-of-date on that. To Westernize now, you need to gain research points and implement military and cultural reforms. You can gain research points the usual way, or by conquest (which speeds up the process dramatically). Try playing Japan for a few years to get a feel for how Westernization works in the current game.

 

[Nerva]

So, my next (related) question is, what if I use Liberate Country and Free People to carve up Qing Empire (in POPs of Darkness mod)? Unlike the Qing Empire's having Manchu as primary culture, the freed countries would have primary cultures aligned with their POPs, and they would be democracies in my SoI, so they would get a research bonus. So, would the freed countries have a shot at Westernizing faster than if the Qing Empire had been left whole?

 

[Flobalob]

So, my next (related) question is, what if I use Liberate Country and Free People to carve up Qing Empire (in POPs of Darkness mod)? Unlike the Qing Empire's having Manchu as primary culture, the freed countries would have primary cultures aligned with their POPs, and they would be democracies in my SoI, so they would get a research bonus. So, would the freed countries have a shot at Westernizing faster than if the Qing Empire had been left whole?

I doubt it. I think the RP generated by the population of the Qing Empire as a whole would outweigh the benefits any smaller nation might get, since they'll have no armies, therefore nothing to conquer with and/or fight rebels.

 

[austrianemporer]

The wiki says that Westernization requires both Prestige score and Military score. The latter should not be much problem for China, so I would think what's holding them back is their Prestige score. Their own research can help with that, but winning wars and battles also helps. I'm playing as the USA and so it is unlikely I will get Qing Empire to ally with me anytime soon, so I'm thinking the only way to help them win is to give them War Subsidies and to go to war with countries they are at war with.

Wiki is outdated.

A player can westernize China in about 10-15 years with a little luck. All you need to do is declare a war of conquest on neighbors like Dai Nam, Korea and such and then release as satellites to lower some infamy. You'll rack up so many RP's it's stupid. Just make sure you have at least one of those military reforms first that gives RP on conquest.

As another country trying to help someone westernize then bring relations to full, ally if possible and help quash rebellions. If you can invest in them that helps too.

Yeah... no. Research bonus comes from reforms which they have passed too so conquering primitive uncivs is completely useless.

But the second part is the only thing which Nerva can do to help the QIng Empire westernize outside of cheating. The problem is, the Qing really don't ally westernized nations, there is a huge malus.

So, my next (related) question is, what if I use Liberate Country and Free People to carve up Qing Empire (in POPs of Darkness mod)? Unlike the Qing Empire's having Manchu as primary culture, the freed countries would have primary cultures aligned with their POPs, and they would be democracies in my SoI, so they would get a research bonus. So, would the freed countries have a shot at Westernizing faster than if the Qing Empire had been left whole?

The problem with that is that the smaller countries will have less incentive to immigrate to America because A. THey are democracies B. They aren't oppressed

 

[Nerva]

It sounds like the upshot of all of this is... the USA might as well just ignore China, because accelerating them Westernizing is next to impossible, even though the immigration payoff for doing so is huge for USA.

 

[Bella Gerant]

If you really want immigrants, you could just carpet siege all of Europe for a few decades. It works, though it is gamey-er than veal.

 

[Nerva]

Yeah, I want to play effectively and efficiently by thoroughly understanding the rules, but I don't want to be gamey or unrealistic -- I don't understand the point of playing a role-playing game or historical simulation game in an unrealistic or gamey way -- it's only cheating yourself. I actually have a bunch of house rules -- here's my current list:

1. Play to be the most ideal USA possible, without being “gamey”.
   
   
2. Promote and protect democracy and oppose Monarchism and Imperialism.
   
   
3. Minimize consumer prices to maximize the standard of living of POPs.
   
   
4. Classless society, self-determination, and consent of the governed. Cultures that aren’t accepted or assimilated must be given autonomy.
   
   
5. Only annex colonies, never states, and release territory with cores of local cultures if they won’t assimilate.
   
   
6. Only ally with, sphere, and invest in, democracies.
   
   
7. Only have satellites that are uncivilized democracies, and release them (using a custom event) once they Westernize.
   
   
8. Only go to war to defend or expand Democracy worldwide.
   
   
9. Don’t send land forces to die in Europe prior to a Great War. Only use War Subsidies and Naval Blockades to assist allied Democracies in Europe.
   
   
10. Provide War Subsidies to every country in the world resisting Imperialism, even if they aren’t Democracies.