• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Nerva

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 30, 2008
1.117
215
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
I'm playing USA and would like to drive up immigration -- I have read that Uncivilized countries do not have emigration/immigration, and since Qing Empire has by far the largest population, the sooner they Westernize, the more immigration to the USA. So, are there any ways the USA can help Qing Empire Westernize faster?
 

TorJado

Second Lieutenant
110 Badges
Jan 28, 2007
121
13
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Lead and Gold
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Deus Vult
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
Off the top of my head, you could try to somehow ally them, or at least get Military Access, and crush every rebel stack they get, and defend them from other powers.
 

Nerva

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 30, 2008
1.117
215
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
The wiki says that Westernization requires both Prestige score and Military score. The latter should not be much problem for China, so I would think what's holding them back is their Prestige score. Their own research can help with that, but winning wars and battles also helps. I'm playing as the USA and so it is unlikely I will get Qing Empire to ally with me anytime soon, so I'm thinking the only way to help them win is to give them War Subsidies and to go to war with countries they are at war with.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Jorlaan

Victorian Rabble Rouser
88 Badges
Jul 16, 2011
2.629
4.158
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
A player can westernize China in about 10-15 years with a little luck. All you need to do is declare a war of conquest on neighbors like Dai Nam, Korea and such and then release as satellites to lower some infamy. You'll rack up so many RP's it's stupid. Just make sure you have at least one of those military reforms first that gives RP on conquest.

As another country trying to help someone westernize then bring relations to full, ally if possible and help quash rebellions. If you can invest in them that helps too.
 

DesNibelungen

Lt. General
29 Badges
Aug 7, 2013
1.646
2.905
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Imperator: Rome
The wiki says that Westernization requires both Prestige score and Military score.

I think the wiki is out-of-date on that. To Westernize now, you need to gain research points and implement military and cultural reforms. You can gain research points the usual way, or by conquest (which speeds up the process dramatically). Try playing Japan for a few years to get a feel for how Westernization works in the current game.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

Nerva

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 30, 2008
1.117
215
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
So, my next (related) question is, what if I use Liberate Country and Free People to carve up Qing Empire (in POPs of Darkness mod)? Unlike the Qing Empire's having Manchu as primary culture, the freed countries would have primary cultures aligned with their POPs, and they would be democracies in my SoI, so they would get a research bonus. So, would the freed countries have a shot at Westernizing faster than if the Qing Empire had been left whole?
 

Flobalob

The Unbeaten, Colonist of the Great Desert Sea
4 Badges
Jun 4, 2013
190
134
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2
So, my next (related) question is, what if I use Liberate Country and Free People to carve up Qing Empire (in POPs of Darkness mod)? Unlike the Qing Empire's having Manchu as primary culture, the freed countries would have primary cultures aligned with their POPs, and they would be democracies in my SoI, so they would get a research bonus. So, would the freed countries have a shot at Westernizing faster than if the Qing Empire had been left whole?
I doubt it. I think the RP generated by the population of the Qing Empire as a whole would outweigh the benefits any smaller nation might get, since they'll have no armies, therefore nothing to conquer with and/or fight rebels.
 

austrianemporer

Field Marshal
76 Badges
Oct 19, 2014
2.701
589
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Magicka 2
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Prison Architect: Psych Ward
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Prison Architect
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
The wiki says that Westernization requires both Prestige score and Military score. The latter should not be much problem for China, so I would think what's holding them back is their Prestige score. Their own research can help with that, but winning wars and battles also helps. I'm playing as the USA and so it is unlikely I will get Qing Empire to ally with me anytime soon, so I'm thinking the only way to help them win is to give them War Subsidies and to go to war with countries they are at war with.
Wiki is outdated.
A player can westernize China in about 10-15 years with a little luck. All you need to do is declare a war of conquest on neighbors like Dai Nam, Korea and such and then release as satellites to lower some infamy. You'll rack up so many RP's it's stupid. Just make sure you have at least one of those military reforms first that gives RP on conquest.

As another country trying to help someone westernize then bring relations to full, ally if possible and help quash rebellions. If you can invest in them that helps too.
Yeah... no. Research bonus comes from reforms which they have passed too so conquering primitive uncivs is completely useless.

But the second part is the only thing which Nerva can do to help the QIng Empire westernize outside of cheating. The problem is, the Qing really don't ally westernized nations, there is a huge malus.
So, my next (related) question is, what if I use Liberate Country and Free People to carve up Qing Empire (in POPs of Darkness mod)? Unlike the Qing Empire's having Manchu as primary culture, the freed countries would have primary cultures aligned with their POPs, and they would be democracies in my SoI, so they would get a research bonus. So, would the freed countries have a shot at Westernizing faster than if the Qing Empire had been left whole?
The problem with that is that the smaller countries will have less incentive to immigrate to America because A. THey are democracies B. They aren't oppressed
 

Nerva

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 30, 2008
1.117
215
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
It sounds like the upshot of all of this is... the USA might as well just ignore China, because accelerating them Westernizing is next to impossible, even though the immigration payoff for doing so is huge for USA.
 

Nerva

Colonel
5 Badges
Mar 30, 2008
1.117
215
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
Yeah, I want to play effectively and efficiently by thoroughly understanding the rules, but I don't want to be gamey or unrealistic -- I don't understand the point of playing a role-playing game or historical simulation game in an unrealistic or gamey way -- it's only cheating yourself. I actually have a bunch of house rules -- here's my current list:
  1. Play to be the most ideal USA possible, without being “gamey”.

  2. Promote and protect democracy and oppose Monarchism and Imperialism.

  3. Minimize consumer prices to maximize the standard of living of POPs.

  4. Classless society, self-determination, and consent of the governed. Cultures that aren’t accepted or assimilated must be given autonomy.

  5. Only annex colonies, never states, and release territory with cores of local cultures if they won’t assimilate.

  6. Only ally with, sphere, and invest in, democracies.

  7. Only have satellites that are uncivilized democracies, and release them (using a custom event) once they Westernize.

  8. Only go to war to defend or expand Democracy worldwide.

  9. Don’t send land forces to die in Europe prior to a Great War. Only use War Subsidies and Naval Blockades to assist allied Democracies in Europe.

  10. Provide War Subsidies to every country in the world resisting Imperialism, even if they aren’t Democracies.
 
Last edited: