Are there going to be naval combat events for individual ships?

[Porkman]

I'm starting this thread based on a discussion about damage control. The current naval combat system has a problem in that it scales all of the damage equally. There are plenty of examples of ships that took ridiculous amounts of damage but survived, while others got taken out by one lucky torpedo strike or bomb.

My idea is simple. In addition to causing normal damage to the strength of a ship each hit against a ship (whether by air or sea) would have a low chance of causing a naval combat event. The chance of these events occuring would be further modified by the strength of the hit, doctrines, technology, leadership and current organization and strength.

These are some ideas.

FIRE!!　－　the hit has caused some part of the ship to ignite. The combat event will last for a random amount of time and cause more strength loss for every round the ship is still on fire. Ships that are at relatively high strength and org will be able to stop fires quickly, possibly modified by a proposed damage control tech.

Ammunition Explosion! - The hit caused an ammo magazine or bomb cache to explode. 300% normal damage.

Damage to rudder - The ship's rudder has been damaged. It will suffer a penalty on all positioning rolls for the rest of the battle.

Damage to propulsion - The ship will suffer huge penalties to positioning and all opposing ships get bonuses when targeting it. Also, becomes unable to retreat.

elevators damaged - This would only affect carriers but it would give all of the CAG's from that carrier a morale penalty.

Turret damaged - The ship's sea attack is reduced by 20%. (though it might just be better to make offensive capability scale to strength)

These are just a few ideas and they don't all have to be bad. It would be really cool if the affect would persist from battle to battle until repaired but the engine probably can't handle that.

This would add a lot to naval combat and allow for the occasional David vs. Goliath upset as happened historically. Things like the sinking of the Hood would look like this --〉hit from Prince Eugen causes FIRE!! （starts taking further damage as the battle continues） --> Hit from the Bismark causes an Ammunition Explosion which combined with the previous damage is enough to sink the ship.

These events would all get more likely the more damaged a ship already was, so it would actually be a significant risk to put out ships that were damaged because they would be much more likely to take catastrophic damage.

What do you all think?

 

[unmerged(52507)]

Great in theory, but as I read it I am struggling to work out how to put it into practise and also how to manage the tactics that might result, and any potential exploits or AI failures. That of course could just be my own limitations speaking, rather than your ideas. It would be cool to set some ship on fire and watch it get out of control even after an action had ended.

 

[Black Lotus]

I'd love for these to be added.

 

[newtype0083]

If these events become part of the game, then they might make ships too vulnerable to enemy fire. Regular attacks would have to be reduced to prevent ships from sinking too rapidly. That would make combat more about chance than tech and numbers. That might be something people would want, given the nature of naval combat.

 

[Alex_brunius]

(though it might just be better to make offensive capability scale to strength)

This is already implemented in HoI2. I have a hard time seeing why they wouldn't put it in HoI3 too.

I agree somewhat with the other suggestions. But I think It would be easier to handle events for the entire fleet.

But the important thing is that something MUST be done to increase randomness of naval combat.

Here are a few suggestions for fleet events:

Skillfull manouvers all ships range and positioning increase 20%.

Furious screens Lighter ships attack furiouslly with torpedoes increasing their positioning with 50% and damage caused and recieved by 100%

Battle line Your capital gunships may all fire during this event.

Tactical withdrawal Smokescreens and torpedoes disorganzie the opposing fleet, damage caused and recived reduced by 50% and the retreat option is instant.

Wolfpack Emerge where your least expected, -75% positioning for enemy transports. (only when there are enemy transports present).

Nightbrawl Caothic close range nightfighting, +100% damage caused and recieved and a further +100% seattack done by screens. Also doubles the chance of friendly fire. (only in nighttime).

Numbers would ofcourse be subject to balancing.

 

[Kodos666]

such maneuvers would be a nice addition, especially if you play USA or Japan, when most of your fighting is focused on fleets. They would add a nice flavor to naval combat.

 

[Chaplain]

Brunius' ideas are excellent and would seem to fit easily within the HOI3 model. Naval combat is dramatically different from land and should be shown as such.

 

[Jerzul]

Great Ideas! I'd love for Naval combat to have some more randomness too it.

 

[Devout]

I like the idea, but I think it depends a lot on how the land events are indicated. I'm worried that there would be too many (or too few) events in naval combat, and would be difficult for the player to monitor the events.

 

[unmerged(135152)]

I don't know if it is just me, but this kind of sounds odd for a game of this scale.

I mean, Iwo Jima is one coastal bombardment, a few bomb runs and twelve hours of battle. Battle for Stalingrad is three thousand dead in four hours. Destruction of the German war industry is -4 IC in France for a month. Enigma is broken in a few months by a Brazilian university. Shermans take out Kingtigers in a frontal assault. Cavalry divisions are worth while investments in 1945.

I don't know, it just sounds kind of specific for a game that is all about abstractions and relative power and forced technological advantage for certain countries and whatnot.

 

[Cardus]

I like these ideas...

 

[dec152000]

Hi,

I think you could distill the original combat event idea down into a realitively simple critical hit system. A critical hit would have a much large impact than standard and would result in ships being crippled/sunk more rapidly than in the current "attritional" system. This would improve the accuracy of naval combat greatly IMO.

The additional idea of combat events also has alot of merit. The current positioning system sort of does this, but with no flavor added.

mm

 

[Porkman]

I don't know if it is just me, but this kind of sounds odd for a game of this scale.

I mean, Iwo Jima is one coastal bombardment, a few bomb runs and twelve hours of battle. Battle for Stalingrad is three thousand dead in four hours. Destruction of the German war industry is -4 IC in France for a month. Enigma is broken in a few months by a Brazilian university. Shermans take out Kingtigers in a frontal assault. Cavalry divisions are worth while investments in 1945.

I don't know, it just sounds kind of specific for a game that is all about abstractions and relative power and forced technological advantage for certain countries and whatnot.

The reason we want it, is that naval assets have a huge impact individually. 1 tank doesn't matter strategically, 1 battleship does.

To alex brunius, I have no problem with fleet based events but since the ships are already going to be rolling for positioning, and firing individually, why not make the combat events individual as well.

As for it being too confusing if you look at the Dev diary 19 (i think) you can see that there is a two inch long space between the ship icon and the strength and org bars that the ship travels along to show positioning. Just make combat event icons that fit over that space.